Maximum effort pro street Viper

[torquemonster]

Ok - we need some more Viper related topics...so here goes

what are your opinions on how much power could be made from the Viper engine (all motor, pump gas, no other power adders) - pick your model, what you'd do to it to get the power you think you might get...

we're not talking about what has been done - but what COULD be done but hasn't yet....

For the record what has been done to date is under 800hp - around 760hp to be exact on a street Viper all motor (someone may know a higher figure).

:eatpop:


I'll add my 2 cents once I see I'm not posting to myself here :rofl: :lol:


:shady:



:eatpop:

[MiSdIrEcTeD_1]

Are we talking crank or rwhp? :D

[Arlington Texas]

Stroke, head work,pistons,cam,headers,lighten up, what else can you do without adding power adders?

[torquemonster]

doesn't matter whether crank or rwhp - just state which it is. To go from crank hp to rwhp just subtract 10hp and multiply by 0.88. To go from rwhp to crank, add 10hp and divide by 0.88.

eg: Striker Stage 3 heads, hyd custom roller cam (256/262 @ 050 and 0.650" lift w/1.7 roller rockers on 112 CL), ported Gen 3 intake, 5 into 1 race headers, 2 x 85mm TB's, Motec etc = 700hp (crank) or 607rwhp

...that was a guess, not my suggestion, but to give an idea what we're asking for


have fun - make up your own recipe.

[MiSdIrEcTeD_1]

Even getting into stuff like extrude honing and going to a dry sump, its still quite a challenge to make over 800 especially with pump gas.

[MiSdIrEcTeD_1]

doesn't matter whether crank or rwhp - just state which it is. To go from crank hp to rwhp just subtract 10hp and multiply by 0.88. To go from rwhp to crank, add 10hp and divide by 0.88.

eg: Striker Stage 3 heads, hyd custom roller cam (256/262 @ 050 and 0.650" lift w/1.7 roller rockers on 112 CL), ported Gen 3 intake, 5 into 1 race headers, 2 x 85mm TB's, Motec etc = 700hp (crank) or 607rwhp

...that was a guess, not my suggestion, but to give an idea what we're asking for


have fun - make up your own recipe.

Thats a pretty low but fair figure at about 12-13 % loss

[b3rndtt0ast]

400+ cfm heads + monster cam + 522+ CI + 11.0:1 comp using Water/Meth injection. and... some decent headers / high flow mufflers.
its the fact you cant use race gas that Fuckes everything up. cant get away with reallly high compression.

[torquemonster]

Thats a pretty low but fair figure at about 12-13 % loss




that came from VCA a few years ago when the data from dozens of Vipers had been collated by someone and the loss came in around that. For the few Viper owners that have done both engine dyno and chassis dyno work - it works out about right for the Viper. For other cars the formula may vary a bit.

[torquemonster]

400+ cfm heads + monster cam + 522+ CI + 11.0:1 comp using Water/Meth injection. and... some decent headers / high flow mufflers.
its the fact you cant use race gas that Fuckes everything up. cant get away with reallly high compression.

Assume 93 octane - what hp do you reckon you could get given a free hand?



Only requirement (beyond being NA is it has to be street drivable in traffic as well as perform

[torquemonster]

Even getting into stuff like extrude honing and going to a dry sump, its still quite a challenge to make over 800 especially with pump gas.



challenging yes, look at how much money Norm has thrown at it and he doesn't make more than that.... but sometimes its the things we over look that frees up significant hp :eatpop::eatpop:

[onguardjeff]

Can we include dylithum crystals?

[torquemonster]

Can we include dylithum crystals?

if you can explain how it adds power - go for it


:eatpop::eatpop::eatpop:



:D

[MrsMonster]

Can we include dylithum crystals?
Is that a type of anal bead? :yikes:

[torquemonster]

:rolleyes:

oh no even my humble attempts to talk Viper tech end in a diversion



:suicide:



stay focused people









:haha::haha:

[b3rndtt0ast]

Assume 93 octane - what hp do you reckon you could get given a free hand?



Only requirement (beyond being NA is it has to be street drivable in traffic as well as perform

not sure on power. to much math for me ;-D
but.... being street able.
thats alot of flex there.
i drove a VERY cammed truck, needed a vacume pump / canister to use power brakes and was just nasty. always wanted to die in traffic, but i did it every day for over 3 months...

[FASTASP]

Ok here goes, Hogans sheetmetal intake, a set of JM Stryker head fully worked by Greg Good or some other porter, a solid roller cam. The lightest and strongest valvetrain assembly I could get my hands on. A fully forged stroker rotating assembly, as light as possible here as well. 1 7/8 stepped to 2" custom long tube headers. CR right at 11.3 : 1. All rough edges smoothed on the piston tops to minimize any chance at detonation. Make use of all the thermal coatings for piston tops and combustion chambers. With the right tune and all the flow numbers working like they should (properly matched setup not just random out of the box stuff) I think 800RWHP is possible.

Or who knows it may require shortening of the stroke and spinning the bastard to the moon, but it can be done. Just not on my budget. But give the $$$$ and I could make it happen. With me doing the assembling and not farming it out.:thumbs:

[MiSdIrEcTeD_1]

Ok here goes, Hogans sheetmetal intake, a set of JM Stryker head fully worked by Greg Good or some other porter, a solid roller cam. The lightest and strongest valvetrain assembly I could get my hands on. A fully forged stroker rotating assembly, as light as possible here as well. 1 7/8 stepped to 2" custom long tube headers. CR right at 11.3 : 1. All rough edges smoothed on the piston tops to minimize any chance at detonation. Make use of all the thermal coatings for piston tops and combustion chambers. With the right tune and all the flow numbers working like they should (properly matched setup not just random out of the box stuff) I think 800RWHP is possible.

Or who knows it may require shortening of the stroke and spinning the bastard to the moon, but it can be done. Just not on my budget. But give the $$$$ and I could make it happen. With me doing the assembling and not farming it out.:thumbs:

And then, in another thread, you can spray the shit out of it :D

[torquemonster]

not sure on power. to much math for me ;-D
but.... being street able.
thats alot of flex there.
i drove a VERY cammed truck, needed a vacume pump / canister to use power brakes and was just nasty. always wanted to die in traffic, but i did it every day for over 3 months...



Yes, that brings in another argument, what is streetable to one person is full race to another...



however most driveability issues come down to setup and tune not cam. Carby's are harder to tame. I ran a Predator carb set up on a 440 mopar A-body, response was fantastic, but it needed MSD to fire reliably and would stall turning left under trailing throttle if cold. A properly setup dominator series carb with 4 corner idling would have cured all that for a lot more money, time and effort.



But with EFI, low impedance injectors and ECU good control, it is possible to get even a full race drag engine to idle and drive around just fine.



Provided the cooling system is up to it the only limits to driving around the street would be valve spring life and associated components that are under huge stress from 1000lb spring pressures.



Therefore let's assume the engine has to be capable of running 10,000 miles without anything more than valve lash adjustments after several runs of WOT racing. That means 1000lb springs are OUT.

[torquemonster]

Ok here goes, Hogans sheetmetal intake, a set of JM Stryker head fully worked by Greg Good or some other porter, a solid roller cam. The lightest and strongest valvetrain assembly I could get my hands on. A fully forged stroker rotating assembly, as light as possible here as well. 1 7/8 stepped to 2" custom long tube headers. CR right at 11.3 : 1. All rough edges smoothed on the piston tops to minimize any chance at detonation. Make use of all the thermal coatings for piston tops and combustion chambers. With the right tune and all the flow numbers working like they should (properly matched setup not just random out of the box stuff) I think 800RWHP is possible.

Or who knows it may require shortening of the stroke and spinning the bastard to the moon, but it can be done. Just not on my budget. But give the $$$$ and I could make it happen. With me doing the assembling and not farming it out.:thumbs:




Good post ++ rep :thumbs: :yep:

Headers that size are not essential, but would work well if you kept the shortest primary no shorter than 34-36 inches to maintain torque. Equal length is not important unless you want peak power at a certain point lifted but I am assuming you'd run something akin to street duty Burns 5 into 1 merge collectors. Their race versions burn out real quick on the street (too thin).



The solid cam idea is sound but here's the rub - there are no true solid cores for the Viper V10. Most Vipers running a solid cam have been profiled on a hyd based core - which cannot take a true solid ramp... which is a waste of time given the same result could be had without the hassle of regular lash adjustments.

Therefore a max effort engine will require a visit to a niche race cnc manufacturer to have a custom 1 off solid core made from billet. Only then could you run some real inverse roller profiles :yep: that slap that valve open but let it down gently.


The rocker choice is simple - Jessel. You'll want big daddy pushrods 1 size up from what most would tell you to run. Titanium valves or gas filled hollow valves, 400cfm intake ports matched to intake, throttle bodies sized to flow an easy 500hp each.


Billet crank could shave off 30lb off the bottom end and be knife edged and machined to turn fast. Stock crank weighs 90lb raw.

Dry sump - check, no brainer, you'll need the vacuum asssistance to keep a nice ring seal at higher rpms. Attention to crank windage would be helpful via use of scrapers and anything to assist oil flow back to the pan quickly.




11.3:1 on pump gas? Depends on cam profile (affects dynamic compression) and quench (squish) area/clearances in the combustion chamber. This clearance will be crucial to whether it works or fails.



800rwhp is around 920hp at crank. To make that will require peak power north of 6500rpm maybe up to 7200rpm depending on stroke / capacity used. The valvetrain will require some harmonics testing to eliminate any spikes and when sorted will allow for higher rpms and stable operation.

Rods will be light, your choice (I'll pick my own in a later post), but if you choose alloy you will have to widen squish clearances at cold (not as much as the books say depending on brand selected).

You may need to go to top feed low impedance injectors - tunnel ram type intake would do the job best but require a sizable hood scoop. Top feeds make more power as they atomize the fuel better (like a race carby does)... remember that a well sorted carby engine will make more peak power than an EFI engine and that is the main reason. However, if you do not want a custom hood then you'll have to play around with the intake, TB, and injector placement to get the best results.

ECU - you could run Big Stuff, Motec, AEM or some one off customized ecu that was prepared just for you and set up over a few days of testing.

Depending on cam profile and combination you may obtain a power curve that keeps going towards 8000rpm if you got everything right, otherwise it will drop off by 7000rpm no matter what you do.

There's a lot of V10 engines out there with big cams and high comp and big heads that do not make near 800rwhp :yep: so it'll take something well beyond what any of the current tuners offer as a package. In fact it will take something beyond what even LPE has done to date with the Viper motor (to my knowledge anyway).

[b3rndtt0ast]

Good post ++ rep :thumbs: :yep:

Headers that size are not essential, but would work well if you kept the shortest primary no shorter than 34-36 inches to maintain torque. Equal length is not important unless you want peak power at a certain point lifted but I am assuming you'd run something akin to street duty Burns 5 into 1 merge collectors. Their race versions burn out real quick on the street (too thin).



The solid cam idea is sound but here's the rub - there are no true solid cores for the Viper V10. Most Vipers running a solid cam have been profiled on a hyd based core - which cannot take a true solid ramp... which is a waste of time given the same result could be had without the hassle of regular lash adjustments.

Therefore a max effort engine will require a visit to a niche race cnc manufacturer to have a custom 1 off solid core made from billet. Only then could you run some real inverse roller profiles :yep: that slap that valve open but let it down gently.


The rocker choice is simple - Jessel. You'll want big daddy pushrods 1 size up from what most would tell you to run. Titanium valves or gas filled hollow valves, 400cfm intake ports matched to intake, throttle bodies sized to flow an easy 500hp each.


Billet crank could shave off 30lb off the bottom end and be knife edged and machined to turn fast. Stock crank weighs 90lb raw.

Dry sump - check, no brainer, you'll need the vacuum asssistance to keep a nice ring seal at higher rpms. Attention to crank windage would be helpful via use of scrapers and anything to assist oil flow back to the pan quickly.




11.3:1 on pump gas? Depends on cam profile (affects dynamic compression) and quench (squish) area/clearances in the combustion chamber. This clearance will be crucial to whether it works or fails.



800rwhp is around 920hp at crank. To make that will require peak power north of 6500rpm maybe up to 7200rpm depending on stroke / capacity used. The valvetrain will require some harmonics testing to eliminate any spikes and when sorted will allow for higher rpms and stable operation.

Rods will be light, your choice (I'll pick my own in a later post), but if you choose alloy you will have to widen squish clearances at cold (not as much as the books say depending on brand selected).

You may need to go to top feed low impedance injectors - tunnel ram type intake would do the job best but require a sizable hood scoop. Top feeds make more power as they atomize the fuel better (like a race carby does)... remember that a well sorted carby engine will make more peak power than an EFI engine and that is the main reason. However, if you do not want a custom hood then you'll have to play around with the intake, TB, and injector placement to get the best results.

ECU - you could run Big Stuff, Motec, AEM or some one off customized ecu that was prepared just for you and set up over a few days of testing.

Depending on cam profile and combination you may obtain a power curve that keeps going towards 8000rpm if you got everything right, otherwise it will drop off by 7000rpm no matter what you do.

There's a lot of V10 engines out there with big cams and high comp and big heads that do not make near 800rwhp :yep: so it'll take something well beyond what any of the current tuners offer as a package. In fact it will take something beyond what even LPE has done to date with the Viper motor (to my knowledge anyway).
would de-stroking the motor help to get it to REV nice?

[jasonmiddletn]

Assume 93 octane - what hp do you reckon you could get given a free hand?



Only requirement (beyond being NA is it has to be street drivable in traffic as well as perform

I think SW's old GTS was around 800hp all motor. RSI built it for him. That sum of a bitch was bad ass.....I've got a video somewhere of it when we were in Nashville for VOI. I'll call him and try to get the exact figures on it.

I'm assuming all motor means no NOS correct?

[MiSdIrEcTeD_1]

I think SW's old GTS was around 800hp all motor. RSI built it for him. That sum of a bitch was bad ass.....I've got a video somewhere of it when we were in Nashville for VOI. I'll call him and try to get the exact figures on it.

I'm assuming all motor means no NOS correct?

I remember that car, although I thought that was with spray. Id like to hear the specs on it as well though. Tell him to sign up and tell us! :D

[torquemonster]

would de-stroking the motor help to get it to REV nice?




It would make it easier to sit high on the rpms, it would not however be necessary. The stock bore and stroke can be made to rpm over 7k quite safely with the right combo, tune, and no harmonic spikes :thumbs:

[torquemonster]

I think SW's old GTS was around 800hp all motor. RSI built it for him. That sum of a bitch was bad ass.....I've got a video somewhere of it when we were in Nashville for VOI. I'll call him and try to get the exact figures on it.

I'm assuming all motor means no NOS correct?



It'd be close, Norms was also a tad under 800hp from what he'd let out, both ran 9's if I recall.


There's a GTS road race car down here that made around 760hp at just 5600rpm all motor. It ran twin 100mm TB's and huge overlap cam that made for erratic running at idle and around the pits, but worked well under throttle... however I do not know if it ran low impedance injectors so it could have been a tuning issue. It certainly performed well at the road courses.

[jasonmiddletn]

It'd be close, Norms was also a tad under 800hp from what he'd let out, both ran 9's if I recall.


There's a GTS road race car down here that made around 760hp at just 5600rpm all motor. It ran twin 100mm TB's and huge overlap cam that made for erratic running at idle and around the pits, but worked well under throttle... however I do not know if it ran low impedance injectors so it could have been a tuning issue. It certainly performed well at the road courses.

Both did run 9's correct. SW's broke into the high 9's on all motor at Beech Bend in Bowling Green, Ky a week before VOI in Nashville. As a matter of fact do you remember Dr. Roof? He had a bad ass red GTS and was from Louisville,Ky. I think his had around 650 hp on motor then a 200 shot of NOS. Best I can recall he ran a mid 10 second that week-end with no NOS!

[jasonmiddletn]

I remember that car, although I thought that was with spray. Id like to hear the specs on it as well though. Tell him to sign up and tell us! :D

I left him a message on his cell. I will let you know when he returns my call!

[torquemonster]

I think 1000hp is more than possible all motor, but bearing in mind we want the valve springs to last 10,000 miles, here's my guestimate maximum effort from available castings:

- Raw Striker 3 castings x 3 with chambers and ports as cast

- Decked heads to achieve smaller chamber, amongst other things

- Heads and a mock piston sent somewhere secret (don't ask) to design the combustion chamber and piston top within the limitations of the casting for best flame travel and quench

- With chambers sorted, fully port the 3rd (spare casting to obtain best velocity and cfm combo, using filler if necessary). Once best port combo is found - digitally duplicate it via CNC on the 2 castings to be used. Hand finish the surface

- hot hone the block

- Custom ring set with 1 being gapless

- Thermal barrier coatings on chamber, piston top, valves and exhaust ports.

- Friction coat piston skirts

- Coated bearings - all

- Consider larger diameter roller cam bearings if room

- custom billet solid cam core. Profile customized by computer simulation but starting out somewhere around 265 intake and 275 exhaust at 050 on 112 lobe centerline and lift around .400" on the lobe

- Custom titanium rods for stock stroke - 6.25" or Kirk Jager alloy matrix rods if available

- custom extreme duty pushrods

- Jessel roller rockers 1.7:1 (if it were a race only engine I'd go over 2:1)

- Have several endurance valve spring options lab tested and pick the best

- lab test the cam and spring combination, reprofile to remove any harmonic spikes

- Mitech dry sump setup - 4 stage

- 1" roller lifters, ceramic coated

- titanium valves, retainers and locks

- sheetmetal intake hand matched to each port with twin 90mm throttle bodies

- it's new years eve - I gotta get to the store.... will continue :D

[MiSdIrEcTeD_1]

Damn Barry! I had thought of decking the heads but you are getting down to coating the pistons and everything. Someone on this quest to lay down strong numbers is gonna spend a lot of money, wherein going TT might end up costing the same or cheaper. Longevity thought would definately be in the NA car's corner.

[jasonmiddletn]

Unless you just wanted a all motor car you would spend some serious dough on this set-up. TT would be cheaper.....but then you couldn't saw it was all motor only!! Can you imagine telling someone you had close to 1,000hp on all motor?:scared:

[Arlington Texas]

The motor would be so radical it would be a bitch to even get it to idle.

[torquemonster]

Damn Barry! I had thought of decking the heads but you are getting down to coating the pistons and everything. Someone on this quest to lay down strong numbers is gonna spend a lot of money, wherein going TT might end up costing the same or cheaper. Longevity thought would definately be in the NA car's corner.


Hey Randy, there are some good IP reasons why decking the heads is a good idea, though it does require also machining mating manifolds as the facing angle changes slightly. Of course the obvious reason is that the chambers get smaller - which raises static compression.

High compression on pump gas is a black art unless you do it old school and run heaps of overlap and end up with low dynamic compression - which is not my thing... :yep: The key IP to good dynamic compression on pump gas is in the shape of the piston crown and chamber, for the positioning of the flame front travel, as well as squish. The difference is not one but SEVERAL points higher than other engine builders could even dream of (which they'd deny of course because they do not know what they do not know, and those that do are not telling or even advertising what they are achieving). The problem is the cost and there's only one place I know that can do it. But boy does it work :D

A maximum effort NA engine is always a very costly effort, but to be fair, a TT combo would be a lot more durable and reliable for similar power levels or even double the power (on high setting)... A 1000hp+ TT engine could last 100,000+ miles of street duty, no reason at all why not.

but I'm reluctant to spill certain points of difference I would do on a TT setup until I've actually done it

[torquemonster]

Unless you just wanted a all motor car you would spend some serious dough on this set-up. TT would be cheaper.....but then you couldn't saw it was all motor only!! Can you imagine telling someone you had close to 1,000hp on all motor?:scared:



yeah many like NA better. Personally I like TT's done right best of all.



Making over 1000hp all motor on a Viper block on pump gas would be easy, and it could be done a lot cheaper than the trouble I've gone to above. The problem is it would be a pro stock type engine that could idle and go get the groceries - because the EFI tuning and low impedance injectors allow for that... but the valve springs would be so stiff, you'd need constant adjustments and regular changes if you did a lot of street driving. Pro stock style wouldn't be a true street engine

[torquemonster]

The motor would be so radical it would be a bitch to even get it to idle.



Actually Irving this is the easiest part now with modern high tech injectors and a good ECU. You can make a full race engine idle these days - so good manners are no longer down to cam profile etc but down to tune, injector choice, and throttle control.




It will however sound like a beast :yep:

[torquemonster]

ok continuing: :D

back to the sheet metal intake (actually I'd get mine cast because I can within .002" and it'd be better... but I say sheet metal to give the idea of basic design). It'd make more power if we made it a tunnel ram and ran two top feed throttle bodies aka Holley dominator style... that would really make good power... however it will also add a big hole in the hood, or a fugly huge pro stock hood scoop on the Viper hood.

So it'd be customers choice:

1 - go for the pro stock look and run the tunnel ram style with either PS scoop or run the tunnel ram sticking out with two air filters atop the TB's. or

2 - go with what I suggested, which will cost power but fit under the hood or at least only require a subtle hood bulge raise which is not so noticeable.

If it was a all out race boat engine that had to idle around we'd run 3 TB's (a small middle one for idling around) but this motor will be fine on 2. The throttle linkage will be heavily skewed so that the first 1/3 throttle is only about 1/8 actual, with the first bit of travel giving very good control of very small throttle openings. This allows the car to be driven in the wet and around the carpark or in traffic without bucking and clutch slipping BS common to most angry motors. While that deadens throttle response a bit compared to a direct 1:1 throttle link, you control the response by the speed and amount of pedal you give it... much safer :yep:


Crank... Winberg, with all the tricks you'd expect on a endurance motor, including certain oiling mods which will require reciprocal mods to certain bearings. Knife edged of course.

With a reciprocating bob weight dramatically lower than stock, and lightweight valvetrain, and no harmonic spikes, we'd be seeing some excellent rpm potential, and the engine builder/tuner would have the ability to now build in a power curve that peaks around 6500-7000+ but stays flat for another 1000rpm+. :yep: Cam timing will play a big part in that, and an engine dyno would be used to do that along with most of the testing and tune.... chassis dynos are not for real engines like this.

Engine dyno's are more accurate (no slip), can factor in far more variables, are far more controllable, and get a better result. So the tuned engine is installed and any subsequent tuning should be on the track - the only real world dyno. A chassis dyno would only be used to get either a bragging number or check drivetrain loss.

Water injection. ECU controlled 3D mapped system running 2 pumps and 10 injectors - imagine a direct port nitrous setup that injects water. Yes you could add 50% methanol to the water but it is not needed and we don't want people arguing it has a power adder :lol: There would be a little trick (or two :D) with the water that greatly enhances the results... moms the word on that for now sorry

That could get close to 1000 crank hp all motor and run pump 93.

The cooling system would be upgraded significantly, and the engine seal would be upgraded via same head gaskets used on the higher boost turbo engines plus high strength head studs. If the block casting allowed for it, we could even drill right through the bottom of the block and pull the heads down from the block bottom... that'd take a huge cylinder pressure. Course I could easily make a new block that could do that - but we're sticking with factory block for now.

If we had more time and money we could try dropping lobe lift a bit and running over 2:1 rockers, seeing if we could run even softer springs then control the valve lofting to best effect.... we'd eventually see a smoother flatter power curve that starts earlier and an rpm limit rise... not that we'd need any more.

Exhaust? The years have convinced me that provided the cfm flow is where it needs to be, unless you have specific needs within a narrow rpm band - might as well go for looks. There are some gains to be had for a street application by the following:

Anti-reversion cones - a fad from the 70's/80's dropped not because they did not work but customers did not want to pay the extra cost and they're harder to make... it's all about the money and what is easy in business, and they do not add 1 hp. What they do is spread the power down lower and add vacuum at partial throttle.... those two things are important in this case. A good AR setup will drop the rpm you can hold WOT by 1500rpm with ease

Primary pipes - I'd run 1.875" and try and have the first 2-3" straight as the port then turning with the largest diameter on the first turn space allows on the tightest cylinder. That'd set the benchmark for the rest and design it to look bloody good ending up aprox 34-36 inches later in a 5 into 1 true merge collector and twin 3" pipes all the way out. equal length is irrelevant so the 34-36" is an average with some shorter some longer - whatever is required to get the look right and symmetrical as possible.

Silencing: hmmmm some like it loud and they could use existing options from collector back. Me? Mine would be close to stock in loudness at light throttle without any cfm loss. It would be louder at WOT than stock however - but that is ok - because I want it that way and could make it even quieter :D How I do that is an IP I plan to put into a business plan over the next 12 months with someone else. This has huge potential... especially with city buses - the single worst noise polluters in most cities (ever tried talking on a cell phone on the sidewalk when a bus goes past in a city street?)... but I digress, this is not a plug.

I think the above combo could run low 9's set-up for drag racing with a good drivetrain and driver, and the suspension adjusted to suit. Obviously we'd be looking at Mark Williams halfshafts, G-Force full works T56, and a Quaife rear end... I'd also drop the ratio to 3.55, and might even try a 4.1 with drag DOT's to stay up in the rpms and use another gear... the only problem with that is the synchro T56 is a slow ass box to shift, so the lower gear may improve ET on that box...

A weight diet of carbon panels, stripped etc could turn it into a high 8 second car... but it kinda loses the plot right there as the same result could be had much cheaper and a low 9 capable car that retains full street trim that you can take interstate with air con and stereo is much more fun :thumbs:.

Well, that's my 2 cents.

Course I'd rather do a similar (but lower rpm) TT setup that only made around 1000rwhp (max street tune) and redlined at 7k, but could cruise at 30mpg++ and pass emissions. Call me environmentally responsible


:rofl::D:thumbs:

A 3000hp monster would also be cool to set a record or two and blow away a cobweb or two from my past... :yep: it would be cool to develop another 6 second combo and this time make it street legal... but I would not want to drive it. That's a job for a real pro...



yawn... another long post... :thumbs: its only purpose is to stimulate thought maybe inspire, maybe inform, maybe invoke challenge to some concepts raised. We're all learning, life is a school.

[bushido]

Can we include dylithum crystals?

A little late, but :haha:

[torquemonster]

:rofl: agreed


looking back on my own post it looks like a real teenager wanker wet dream except for one thing....

which I can't tell you right now


:lol: :D

[makara]

Can we include dylithum crystals?

I can't dooooo it captain. I don't haaaave the pooooooweeeer!

[Lord Nikon]

Assume 93 octane - what hp do you reckon you could get given a free hand?



Only requirement (beyond being NA is it has to be street drivable in traffic as well as perform

NA I am running a tick over 600 to the wheels. This is a TNT build with 10.75:1 compression and runs on 91 or 93 octane. I have a dual stage N2O on the car and put down over 950 to the wheels 2 years ago. I know if I was to upgrade just the heads I could see 650 because I am running some slightly ported mopar performance heads from many years ago and the stock fuel system (upgrading right now). Car is also streetable.