Who's running nitrous with Roe?

[Red Snake]

After reading Bottlefed's redline thread, I am considering a little "squeeze" myself. Joe Donovan is my tuner and he is a squeeze-a-holic. :lol: He keeps pushing me to up the ante with a small shot.

700 pound feet on 10# of boost is starting to feel a little ho-hum. :D I'll just have to figure out what to do for rear tires. :eatpop:

What kind of numbers (dyno and track) have you guys seen with the Roe and nitrous? I have a stock motor but I have Walbro fuel pump and w/m (full bolt ons).

[N2 TRBL]

Pardon my ignorance, but I think Too Blue is. That is a roe in his pics?

[MiSdIrEcTeD_1]

Pardon my ignorance, but I think Too Blue is. That is a roe in his pics?

Yeah, his setup is made for it, but I'm not sure that it's quite put together yet. The results will definately be interesting, though, cause that manifold of his is built for more than just a little squeeze.

[Red Snake]

Pardon my ignorance, but I think Too Blue is. That is a roe in his pics?

He is but he's not tuned yet (I live near him:D). He also has a built motor and he's spraying alot more than just a small shot.:yep: I'm looking for just a generic Roe set up with stock motor and a small shot if anyone has run that set up.

Thanks for the help though.:thumbs:

[N2 TRBL]

Yeah, his setup is made for it, but I'm not sure that it's quite put together yet. The results will definately be interesting, though, cause that manifold of his is built for more than just a little squeeze.
see? I'm learnin stuff.:nana:

:eatpop: for the results. Too Blue doesnt come around much though?

[Red Snake]

Yeah, his setup is made for it, but I'm not sure that it's quite put together yet. The results will definately be interesting, though, cause that manifold of his is built for more than just a little squeeze.

His car will be the mother of all Roe cars when it's tuned.:thumbs:

[DEADEYE]

I'm looking to do the same thing.

[99 RT/10]

I would NEVER do NOS on my Roe............................................... ................





















:D :D :D

[The Former PFR]

Nitrous is a very good thing with the ROE. Seems like the HP almost doubles as compared to the shot size because of the cooling.

[martyb]

Is Joe at PBJ still around? I know several that have tried to get in touch with him recently(including me) that have never heard back.

Is he doing the nitrous install for you??

[Red Snake]

Is Joe at PBJ still around? I know several that have tried to get in touch with him recently(including me) that have never heard back.

Is he doing the nitrous install for you??

Joe is still around. The mustang and corvette crowd has moved in and keep his shop swamped with business. He is busier than ever.

When I move forward on this he will do the tuning and the install if I don't do it myself.

[martyb]

Glad to hear he is doing well. Maybe he will hire someone to answer phones and return messages

[Red Snake]

Glad to hear he is doing well. Maybe he will hire someone to answer phones and return messages

I doubt that.:lol:


I don't usually call. I just stop by the shop so he'll have to talk to me.:rofl:

[martyb]

Maybe you were they guy bothering him everyday for over a year while my car was there:D, j/k of course.

Let me know the numbers if you go with n2o. I cannot imagine tires that will hold that type of power very well. I have a 10# also, and I cannot keep the tires from spinning into 4th, although it has been cold here in Chicago. Maybe it will hook a little better in the summertime.

[mnviper]

I have a 10# Roe/Nos setup by PBJ. 60hp shot I believe, numbers are around 700/800. The single Walbro pump won't be sufficient for much more than that. I'm considering going to a standalone fuel system for the nitrous.

[bushido]

NoMan is running NOS with his Roe.. Maybe he will chime in..

[Red Snake]

I have a 10# Roe/Nos setup by PBJ. 60hp shot I believe, numbers are around 700/800. The single Walbro pump won't be sufficient for much more than that. I'm considering going to a standalone fuel system for the nitrous.

Is your car a Gen I or Gen II?

I am at 660 rwhp & 710 rwtrq without nitrous. What were your numbers before the 60 shot?

[mnviper]

Its a 99 Gen II. My numbers were mysteriously low on pump gas, something like 575/640 with 10# and W/M and the usual bolt-ons. There was more to be had with the nitrous but the car was running out of fuel at 700 with the stock pump.

[The Former PFR]

Its a 99 Gen II. My numbers were mysteriously low on pump gas, something like 575/640 with 10# and W/M and the usual bolt-ons. There was more to be had with the nitrous but the car was running out of fuel at 700 with the stock pump.

You could always go the Propane route.

[Red Snake]

Its a 99 Gen II. My numbers were mysteriously low on pump gas, something like 575/640 with 10# and W/M and the usual bolt-ons. There was more to be had with the nitrous but the car was running out of fuel at 700 with the stock pump.

That is low on pump gas for 10 pounds and water meth. I stepped up to the Walbro 255 when I put the 10 pound pulley on.

[mnviper]

I've considered it but I'm running out of space in my trunk as it is. I've been considering a standalone fuel system like this:
http://www.nitrousoutlet.com/catalog/product_details.asp?group=24&model=73&dept=11&product_id=2835

[The Former PFR]

I've considered it but I'm running out of space in my trunk as it is. I've been considering a standalone fuel system like this:
http://www.nitrousoutlet.com/catalog/product_details.asp?group=24&model=73&dept=11&product_id=2835

Well, I think you'd be fine with just a beefier fuel pump and maybe some new lines, but that would work too. What kind of injector duty cycles are you running?

[MBCCENTER]

I do have one of those and other Nitrous parts I want to get out of my garage. You can drive up and check them out.

[mnviper]

Well, I think you'd be fine with just a beefier fuel pump and maybe some new lines, but that would work too. What kind of injector duty cycles are you running?
This is a wet system, so the injectors aren't an issue. I am actually planning to do a twin pump setup this spring to support some other mods I'm doing and I'm guessing this could probably handle the nitrous as well, but the appeal of the separate fuel cell is that I can use race gas in the cell and stay with pump gas in the tank. My current tune the nitrous assumes race gas, so its really a track only option.

[MiSdIrEcTeD_1]

This is a wet system, so the injectors aren't an issue. I am actually planning to do a twin pump setup this spring to support some other mods I'm doing and I'm guessing this could probably handle the nitrous as well, but the appeal of the separate fuel cell is that I can use race gas in the cell and stay with pump gas in the tank. My current tune the nitrous assumes race gas, so its really a track only option.

Do you happen to have any pictures of your car and this setup with the seperate fuel cell? I'm just curious to see.

[mnviper]

Do you happen to have any pictures of your car and this setup with the seperate fuel cell? I'm just curious to see.
Actually I don't have a fuel cell yet, but my understanding is that it attaches to the aluminum cross bar in front of the engine.

[Too Blue]

Hey REDSNAKE
Did you install it yet?
No, I haven't tuned mine yet. I will let you know the numbers with and w/o nos. My TT SS is about two weeks away from being done. I will get both cars shipped out and tuned then. Can't wait. Been at JMB almost everyday...

Are you doing a dry or wet shot?
Fog or injected?
Before or after the blower?

A lot to think about.

Good luck with your tuner...

(you know my feelings there, I think I have said enough though...)

[martyb]

Good luck with your tuner...

:rofl:

that is all

[Red Snake]

Hey REDSNAKE
Did you install it yet?
No, I haven't tuned mine yet. I will let you know the numbers with and w/o nos. My TT SS is about two weeks away from being done. I will get both cars shipped out and tuned then. Can't wait. Been at JMB almost everyday...

Are you doing a dry or wet shot?
Fog or injected?
Before or after the blower?

A lot to think about.

Good luck with your tuner...

(you know my feelings there, I think I have said enough though...)

Hey Mike,

i haven't installed anything yet. Still kicking it around. Been travelling too much lately to get anything done. Let me know when that TT is done. I'd like to check it out.:thumbs:

[Too Blue]

Good Luck Tim

MBBCENTER was supposed to get NOS installed with his Roe there also...
Gonna run it in "Pinks" at Gateway

Hey Matt, You have been waiting about two years now, correct?

[MBCCENTER]

Good Luck Tim

MBBCENTER was supposed to get NOS installed with his Roe there also...
Gonna run it in "Pinks" at Gateway

Hey Matt, You have been waiting about two years now, correct?

I think I quit waiting about a year and a half ago:rofl:

[martyb]

YOU are a smart man Matt:D I took my car there in Dec of 06, and finally got it back complete in April 08. If I would have known it would have taken that long, I would have sold the car, bought my GTS, and taken it to Paolo for his side mount TT kit. I would have had less than a month of down time, instead of a year and a half. Price would have been about the same as the heads/cam/roe that I now have.

[No Man]

Who is the tuner taking forever completing builds?

[MBCCENTER]

I will tell you when PBJ was here tunning 5 cars in one weekend I think he worked very hard and did a good job. The problem is that I am and one other person is having some issues now and there is no support. I would use him again if he was going to answer the phone.

[Too Blue]

The biggest problem occurs when a wrench is involved...

I tried not to go there...MARTYB brought it out of me...:rofl::haha:

[Too Blue]

I will tell you when PBJ was here tunning 5 cars in one weekend I think he worked very hard and did a good job. The problem is that I am and one other person is having some issues now and there is no support. I would use him again if he was going to answer the phone.

-You obviously have more than one car....

-"I am and one other person is having issues"....???????

There's three on this thread now....

[Red Snake]

I am not having issues. Joe has been good to me.

[mnviper]

I am not having issues. Joe has been good to me.

Most likely because...

I don't usually call. I just stop by the shop so he'll have to talk to me.

[Too Blue]

I am not having issues. Joe has been good to me.

I doubt that.:lol:



Most likely because...

I don't usually call. I just stop by the shop so he'll have to talk to me.:rofl:



:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Tim, I think MNVIPER hit the nail on the head ... Rather obvious.

-Just curious, what happens when you call on the phone?
-How did you come to the idea that you "had to drive down there to talk to the guy?

You have had your car tuned there.
You TRIED to get something else done(W/Meth) and couldn't.
Like I said, problem comes in when a wrench is involved.
Cost me about $15-20K to figure that out.

Unfortunately, like everyone else, you will see.

Tim, you know i don't have any problems with you. Just recalling all the fckn BS that I dealt with and put up with gets me pissed off.

FWIW.. I can back up and have proof of everything I have said.


SORRY for the "RANT"..:cursin::cursin::cursin:

[JohnnyBravo]

I took my car to Joe in St. Louis and had him tune it for me. I thought he did a great job while I was there.

However, if you're not physically standing right there, you have virtually no chance of getting him to do much more for you. I had an issue with my water/methanol kit that I needed him to look at. It worked intermittently. It would come on when it wasn't supposed to and wouldn't come on when it was supposed to. Even when I had a tune with no water/meth trigger, it would come on and stay on until it drained everything out of the tank. I had to disconnect the system entirely and couldn't use my good tunes on the car. I couldn't get him to give me the time of day to get my car in. So I waited.

Then, I had heads sitting in his shop for 8 months, waiting for him to install on my car. I waited, and waited, and waited and waited. Fortunately, I still had the car, so it wasn't sitting in a shop torn apart all year. But it never got done. I finally gave up on him and sent my car to Underground Racing. Underground Racing built a 510 stroker motor, installed heads and cam, installed a Paxton blower, installed a full fuel system, an AEM, a new McCleod clutch, a Quaife rear end, and had the intake manifold extrude honed and powder coated in less than 120 days. I waited 240 days for Joe and he never even bothered to help fix my water/methanol kit or install one set of heads (an 8 hour job).

The final thing that kind of ticked me off was my Roe lower intake manifold. In order to expedite the process of getting my heads and intake ported, Joe loaned me a core set of heads and lower intake to send off for porting. The idea being that I wouldn't have to take my car apart to wait for that work to get done. Once I got the ported heads and intake back, we'd simply "swap" the ported stuff for my stock stuff. Well, I never ended up having Joe do the work. I did finally get my heads from him (and sent him my stockers), but I later found out that he SOLD the lower intake that I paid to have ported. That kind of pissed me off. After waiting for him for 8 months, he never came through, and then he made a profit off of parts that I paid for.

I'll stick with Underground Racing from now on.

[Red Snake]

Mike, I know you had problems with Joe. I know others have had problems with Joe. I am sorry for you all but that has nothing to do with me. I did not have problems with joe doing my w/m.
Justin installed the w/m and joe tuned it perfectly.
Joe answers my phone calls and works on my car. He has even helped me out a few times without charging me.
As I said before, joe has been good to me.

Sorry if your experience wasn't the same but its certainly not my fault.

[Greg Good]

I took my car to Joe in St. Louis and had him tune it for me. I thought he did a great job while I was there.

However, if you're not physically standing right there, you have virtually no chance of getting him to do much more for you. I had an issue with my water/methanol kit that I needed him to look at. It worked intermittently. It would come on when it wasn't supposed to and wouldn't come on when it was supposed to. Even when I had a tune with no water/meth trigger, it would come on and stay on until it drained everything out of the tank. I had to disconnect the system entirely and couldn't use my good tunes on the car. I couldn't get him to give me the time of day to get my car in. So I waited.

Then, I had heads sitting in his shop for 8 months, waiting for him to install on my car. I waited, and waited, and waited and waited. Fortunately, I still had the car, so it wasn't sitting in a shop torn apart all year. But it never got done. I finally gave up on him and sent my car to Underground Racing. Underground Racing built a 510 stroker motor, installed heads and cam, installed a Paxton blower, installed a full fuel system, an AEM, a new McCleod clutch, a Quaife rear end, and had the intake manifold extrude honed and powder coated in less than 120 days. I waited 240 days for Joe and he never even bothered to help fix my water/methanol kit or install one set of heads (an 8 hour job).

The final thing that kind of ticked me off was my Roe lower intake manifold. In order to expedite the process of getting my heads and intake ported, Joe loaned me a core set of heads and lower intake to send off for porting. The idea being that I wouldn't have to take my car apart to wait for that work to get done. Once I got the ported heads and intake back, we'd simply "swap" the ported stuff for my stock stuff. Well, I never ended up having Joe do the work. I did finally get my heads from him (and sent him my stockers), but I later found out that he SOLD the lower intake that I paid to have ported. That kind of pissed me off. After waiting for him for 8 months, he never came through, and then he made a profit off of parts that I paid for.

I'll stick with Underground Racing from now on.

Nice screenshot Mark.



Just for the record everybody, the intake porting was done for *No Charge*.

The intake itself belonged to Joe.

If anyone *should* have a problem with Joe selling the manifold it would be *me*, but I don't.

I just wanted to correct another *story*. I hear about Joe not returning calls all the time. Yeah that is sad, but I have yet to hear of him *stealing* from someone. No theft occurred with this manifold or the work performed to it.

Carry on.

[Too Blue]

REDSNAKE...
You are right. I got way off topic here. My apology.

I was not intending to "go off". That is why I simply stated, "Good luck with your tuner"

BTW... You and I know there is more to your Water/meth story...

enough said....:yep:

[Red Snake]

REDSNAKE...
You are right. I got way off topic here. My apology.

I was not intending to "go off". That is why I simply stated, "Good luck with your tuner"

BTW... You and I know there is more to your Water/meth story...

enough said....:yep:

There is not more to my "story" Mike.
Joe was cool with justin doing my w/m.joe even tuned it for me after justin installed it.

Joe got upset because other members started going directly to justin. Everybody knows that. Its no big secret.

[JohnnyBravo]

Nice screenshot Mark.



Just for the record everybody, the intake porting was done for *No Charge*.

The intake itself belonged to Joe.

If anyone *should* have a problem with Joe selling the manifold it would be *me*, but I don't.

I just wanted to correct another *story*. I hear about Joe not returning calls all the time. Yeah that is sad, but I have yet to hear of him *stealing* from someone. No theft occurred with this manifold or the work performed to it.

Carry on.

However you charged for it, I paid for it. I paid you, in full, for head porting and intake porting. It doesn't matter to me if you discounted the heads and charged me for the intake or gave me the intake as part of a package. You gave me a price. I paid it. That makes the work mine.

I already stated that the intake was Joe's. That was pretty clear in my post. However, I technically owned the machine work that was done to it. He ended up selling it or giving it away with MY work done to it. After dicking me around for 8 months and leaving me high and dry, that just added insult to injury.

This isn't a "story" Greg. The work on that manifold belonged to me. He should have offered to give me MY ported manifold in exchange for a core manifold, but he didn't. He took it and profited from it.

Quit trying to find fire where there isn't even any smoke. I thought you were done being butthurt over your heads a long time ago. Give it a rest.

[martyb]

There is not more to my "story" Mike.
Joe was cool with justin doing my w/m.joe even tuned it for me after justin installed it.

Joe got upset because other members started going directly to justin. Everybody knows that. Its no big secret.


So, does Justin know how to tune a VEC? I may just give him a call and see if he answers, or returns my call:D.

[Greg Good]

However you charged for it, I paid for it. I paid you, in full, for head porting and intake porting. It doesn't matter to me if you discounted the heads and charged me for the intake or gave me the intake as part of a package. You gave me a price. I paid it. That makes the work mine.

I already stated that the intake was Joe's. That was pretty clear in my post. However, I technically owned the machine work that was done to it. He ended up selling it or giving it away with MY work done to it. After dicking me around for 8 months and leaving me high and dry, that just added insult to injury.

This isn't a "story" Greg. The work on that manifold belonged to me. He should have offered to give me MY ported manifold in exchange for a core manifold, but he didn't. He took it and profited from it.

Quit trying to find fire where there isn't even any smoke. I thought you were done being butthurt over your heads a long time ago. Give it a rest.

You never had any ownership in that manifold. It was mine and Joes'. You paid for heads only, and not a dime for the manifold work. That was deal we discussed, it was crystal clear, and it did not change. When you and he traded manifolds THEN it would have been yours. But alas, that never happened.


I donated my time on the manifold to the *project*. You abandoned the project and went a different route. You never saw the manifold, you never owned it, and you never paid a single penny for the work done on it. You had one Roe blower manifold, and you either still have it or you sold it. No one took it from you.



Your sense of entitlement is astounding, and it's deplorable that you would get on the internet and claim Joe took something of yours and sold it, just for the sole reason of harming his reputation. He didn't steal a thing from you. What did you expect for him to do...sell the manifold and send YOU the money for it? Give me a break!


You got *blown off* by Joe. So what. Get over it. You only make yourself look untrustworthy when you lie about people stealing from you. You're the 1% that gives the other 99% a bad name. How can anyone believe a word you say?

Liar. :finger:

[JohnnyBravo]

You never had any ownership in that manifold. It was mine and Joes'. You paid for heads only, and not a dime for the manifold work. That was deal we discussed, it was crystal clear, and it did not change. When you and he traded manifolds THEN it would have been yours. But alas, that never happened.


I donated my time on the manifold to the *project*. You abandoned the project and went a different route. You never saw the manifold, you never owned it, and you never paid a single penny for the work done on it. You had one Roe blower manifold, and you either still have it or you sold it. No one took it from you.



Your sense of entitlement is astounding, and it's deplorable that you would get on the internet and claim Joe took something of yours and sold it, just for the sole reason of harming his reputation. He didn't steal a thing from you. What did you expect for him to do...sell the manifold and send YOU the money for it? Give me a break!


You got *blown off* by Joe. So what. Get over it. You only make yourself look untrustworthy when you lie about people stealing from you. You're the 1% that gives the other 99% a bad name. How can anyone believe a word you say?

Liar. :finger:

Greg,

When will you learn? You've spent too much time inhaling aluminum head dust to even form a coherent thought anymore.

How can I not have any ownership in the manifold when I paid for the work done to it? It doesn't make any difference if you charged me $3600 for porting the manifold and ported the heads for free, if you charged me $3600 to port the heads and ported the manifold for free, or if you charged me $1800 to port each. I PAID YOU WHAT YOU BILLED ME FOR AND THE WORK BELONGED TO ME! It amazes me that such a simple concept can escape you. The work done to those items was mine and mine alone. I paid for it.

Here's an illustration for you, Geico posterboy. If I give you an iPod for your birthday, and someone steals it our of your dilapidated old pick up truck, does that mean you don't have any claim? After all, it was technically FREE, right? Are you saying that it wasn't yours because you didn't give cash money for it? Are you telling me that I would have to file the police report, because they technically stole MY iPod? I mean, under your logic, you didn't really have an ownership interest in it, right? That's fucking retarded, Greg, and you know it.

When the government takes the land that you inherited from your great grandpappy and makes you move out of your trailer, are you going to just walk away? I mean, after all, you got the land as a gift. You didn't pay for it. You shouldn't be "entitled" to be paid for something that someone else allegedly gave you, right? Even a 2nd grader is smarter than that, Greg. You should stick to dremels and horrible innuendos and leave the thinking to other people.

The head work and manifold work belonged to me. I paid for it. It was mine. He took his manifold (with MY port work) and sold it. That's shitty. He should have swapped my stock manifold for the ported one, but he didn't. That was wholly inappropriate. You are correct that I never saw the manifold. Hell, I never saw the heads, either. You know why? Because Joe would never make time to work on my car. He kept the heads and manifold at his shop and never installed them for me. I had to actually have a third party go get MY heads from him to ship them off the Underground Racing. He wouldn't even do that much for me after 8 months.

Furthermore, you oxygen deprived caveman, I didn't "abondon" the project. Joe abandoned the project. If you have a problem with why your heads and manifold never made it on my car, talk to him. He didn't want to do the work. It doesn't appear that I'm alone in my frustration with him, either.

Finally, I'm curious to know how many heads and manifolds you've done for Joe lately? I'm guessing the answer is none and I can tell you why. But we'll save that for when you try to make another stupid post which will demonstrate once again that you were dropped on your head too many times as a child.

[Greg Good]

Entitlement becomes you as flowers do a pretty girl.

You have nothing invested in the manifold, and you lost nothing. The manifold itself was the property of Joe Donovan, and the labor was my property. You never took possession of it. You have to actually receive a gift for it to be yours. :lol:

I did the work, and I KNOW what I did and did not get compensated for on that project. No one has ever paid full price for a Roe manifold port job in my shop. Some I've done for nothing, some I do very cheaply. In your case nothing was charged. *If* you had owned the manifold you would have an argument, but you didn't. As it stands you're guilty of libel.

[JohnnyBravo]

Entitlement becomes you as flowers do a pretty girl.

You have nothing invested in the manifold, and you lost nothing. The manifold itself was the property of Joe Donovan, and the labor was my property. You never took possession of it. You have to actually receive a gift for it to be yours. :lol:

I did the work, and I KNOW what I did and did not get compensated for on that project. No one has ever paid full price for a Roe manifold port job in my shop. Some I've done for nothing, some I do very cheaply. In your case nothing was charged. *If* you had owned the manifold you would have an argument, but you didn't. As it stands you're guilty of libel.

I have an investment in the manifold. I paid a package price and got ported heads and a ported manifold. They're mine. Whether I paid cash for them or you gave them to me as a gift, they're mine, you inbred cave dweller.

So because I never received the property I paid for, I'm not entitled to it? That's awesome logic there, Little Hennessey. As long as I pay you for something and you never actually deliver the product, then nothing is wrong? Is that what you're saying? Good lord, you're a dim bulb.

Why does someone else get a windfall on my project? Answer that. I paid for the port work on the manifold. I don't care how you and your creative book keeping log it in, but the "package" was paid for in full. Rather than exchange a core manifold for the manifold with MY port work done on it, he sold the ported manifold. I was left with a stock manifold with no port work, although I had paid for or been given a ported one. At a minimum, that's an unjust enrichment, Einstein.

Stick to trolling the LS1 forums. Those guys will be impressed with your GED.

I notice you never answered the question about how many heads and manifolds you've done for Joe lately. I think everyone on here has figured out what's going on. The joke is on you.

[Greg Good]

Gawd you're thick-headed. You never paid for manifold work. Period. I'm the one that lost out. Payment for the manifold work would have come in the form of a good running project, but that never happened. A lot of things I do are compensated in other ways than money. I do free work all the time on customers projects to make them better in the end. Someone got a nicely ported Roe intake at MY expense, not yours. You have no right to suggest Joe is a thief.

I've never done business with Joe. We have met once, and talked on the phone some. I've answered questions for him, and he for me. I respect his work, and admire his knowledge, and he has helped me. I hope I have helped him.

Do tell about the joke. I've got some thick hide on me so go ahead.

[JohnnyBravo]

Gawd you're thick-headed. You never paid for manifold work. Period. I'm the one that lost out. Payment for the manifold work would have come in the form of a good running project, but that never happened. A lot of things I do are compensated in other ways than money. I do free work all the time on customers projects to make them better in the end. Someone got a nicely ported Roe intake at MY expense, not yours. You have no right to suggest Joe is a thief.

I've never done business with Joe. We have met once, and talked on the phone some. I've answered questions for him, and he for me. I respect his work, and admire his knowledge, and he has helped me. I hope I have helped him.

Do tell about the joke. I've got some thick hide on me so go ahead.

How do I know I didn't pay for manifold work? I don't know how you accounted for my money. The point is, for the sum of $3600 or whatever it was, I was supposed to receive a set of ported heads and a ported manifold. You did the work. That's not in dispute. The question is, who was supposed to receive the benefit from the ported parts? The answer is me. Joe simply "advanced" the use of some core parts to save me some down time. He was going to get core parts in return when I got my ported parts. Instead, he kept my ported manifold and sold it so someone else. That wasn't the deal and he profited from my dealings with you. That was wrong.

I didn't really post in this thread with the intention of just bashing Joe. The point was to mirror what many have already said and voice what I think many are afraid to. Joe does good work......when you can get a hold of him. His post-project support is pretty terrible, however. I waited over 8 months for him to do a simple install and he just didn't care. He couldn't be bothered. Had he told me that 8 months earlier, I could have made different decisions. Instead, he made promises that he either couldn't, or didn't want to keep. It doesn't sound like this is an isolated incident, either.

Maybe joke was the wrong word, because assuming anything like this had ever happened, it is more than likely that you wouldn't find it the least bit funny.

I'm going to give you a scenario, followed by a question.

Let's just say, hypothetically, that someone had a set of your heads and one of your ported manifolds for an almost unlimited amount of time....like 8 months. I'm no expert, so I'm going to ask the question: Would it be possible for a person with good working knowledge of mechanics and the use of a mic, to determine intake and exhaust port sizes, port volumes, spring types, part numbers and then port all their own heads and manifolds using yours as a guide?

[martyb]

Let's just say, hypothetically, that someone had a set of your heads and one of your ported manifolds for an almost unlimited amount of time....like 8 months. I'm no expert, so I'm going to ask the question: Would it be possible for a person with good working knowledge of mechanics and the use of a mic, to determine intake and exhaust port sizes, port volumes, spring types, part numbers and then port all their own heads and manifolds using yours as a guide?


I know that answer to that question :)

[Greg Good]

Maybe joke was the wrong word, because assuming anything like this had ever happened, it is more than likely that you wouldn't find it the least bit funny.

I'm going to give you a scenario, followed by a question.

Let's just say, hypothetically, that someone had a set of your heads and one of your ported manifolds for an almost unlimited amount of time....like 8 months. I'm no expert, so I'm going to ask the question: Would it be possible for a person with good working knowledge of mechanics and the use of a mic, to determine intake and exhaust port sizes, port volumes, spring types, part numbers and then port all their own heads and manifolds using yours as a guide?


You're late to the party Mark.

Several years ago, WAY before I did your heads, Joe worked on V10MOJO's RT10 that had my heads on it. He ASKED me for permission to reverse engineer that set of heads and learn what he could from them. I told him to "Go ahead". Hopefully he learned something he could put to use on his own heads that he ports in-house. He was a gentleman for asking IMHO.

He did not do anything devious in that situation. Sorry to drill another hole in one of your stories.

And about the GED. I dropped out of school to do the right thing and support my Mom and sister when the family was doing badly.

[JohnnyBravo]

You're late to the party Mark.

Several years ago, WAY before I did your heads, Joe worked on V10MOJO's RT10 that had my heads on it. He ASKED me for permission to reverse engineer that set of heads and learn what he could from them. I told him to "Go ahead". Hopefully he learned something he could put to use on his own heads that he ports in-house. He was a gentleman for asking IMHO.

He did not do anything devious in that situation. Sorry to drill another hole in one of your stories.

And about the GED. I dropped out of school to do the right thing and support my Mom and sister when the family was doing badly.

It's not a hole in a story. It's true. You're just saying that he asked you if it was ok. But that doesn't change the fact that I'm right. I'll just assume that when you told him it was ok to do that to Rich's heads, you meant that as a continuing authority to do it to all of your future work that happens to come into his shop.

I just took wild shot in the dark at the GED thing. Guess I was right about that, too, though.

Enough cluttering up this thread already. People want to know about running nitrous on a Roe blower. I've heard lots of positive things about running a small dry shot on the Roe because it provides additional HP and TQ as much from the additional cooling it provides as from the addition of the nitrous. Several people have run 9's with the Roe and just a 60 or 70 shot dry. Part of the gain is from running race gas and being able to roll in additional timing. In any event, it sounds like the positive displacement blowers really benefit from a shot of the gas.

[Greg Good]

It's not a hole in a story. It's true. You're just saying that he asked you if it was ok. But that doesn't change the fact that I'm right. I'll just assume that when you told him it was ok to do that to Rich's heads, you meant that as a continuing authority to do it to all of your future work that happens to come into his shop.

I just took wild shot in the dark at the GED thing. Guess I was right about that, too, though.



I don't know if he looked at one of your heads or not. He has standing permission to look at anything of mine that comes into his shop, and would not have had to ask.

The gist of the story appeared to be that he misappropriated some of my cylinder head ideas for use on his own cylinder head program, and it was a joke on me that I didn't know about it. At least that's what I inferred using my measly GED education. You were all wet......as usual.

I assumed that you had done some digging on me, and were speaking from first hand knowledge. You're enough of a deviant to do that to a person. I not ashamed of the GED. It was not something I wanted, but something that had to be done. I think it made me stronger. I'm a little older than you, and grew up in a different way. Kids around my house were not brought up to have a sense of entitlement. :thumbs:

[JohnnyBravo]

I don't know if he looked at one of your heads or not. He has standing permission to look at anything of mine that comes into his shop, and would not have had to ask.

The gist of the story appeared to be that he misappropriated some of my cylinder head ideas for use on his own cylinder head program, and it was a joke on me that I didn't know about it. At least that's what I inferred using my measly GED education. You were all wet......as usual.

I assumed that you had done some digging on me, and were speaking from first hand knowledge. You're enough of a deviant to do that to a person. I not ashamed of the GED. It was not something I wanted, but something that had to be done. I think it made me stronger. I'm a little older than you, and grew up in a different way. Kids around my house were not brought up to have a sense of entitlement. :thumbs:



So now I'm a deviant? You're a real piece of work, Greg. YOU were the one with the sense of entitlement, threatening and cussing at me when I wouldn't use the heads that I BOUGHT AND PAID FOR. You never seemed to get it through your thick skull that once I paid for them, they were mine, not yours. You continued to call them YOUR HEADS and demanded to know what I was going to do with YOUR HEADS as if you had some say in the matter. Now THAT'S a warped sense of entitlement. I can do whatever I damn well please with MY heads. I can put them on my car, I can run them over with a truck or I can throw them off a bridge. They're mine. You just don't seem to get that. Once I pay for something, I own it. The manifold was mine just as much as the heads were. He didn't try to sell the heads out from under me. It wasn't until after I had someone else go and get my heads for me and ship them off that he got pissed and sold the manifold. I mean, I guess he should have sold my $3600 heads to someone else, too, right? After all, I never even saw them and all the work was technically done on his core heads, right? So I had no interest in them. Isn't that how your feeble brain processed the situation? What a mororn.

As for giving him your permission, I'd say you're full of shit on that, too. You threw a HUGE FIT when you found out your precious heads were sitting at Underground Racing. You called me on the phone and read me the riot act about how you just happened to forget to put your name on that particular set of heads and that now Underground Racing might copy your super voodoo magic head port work. Those aren't exactly the kinds of paranoid delusions a guy has if he doesn't really care who "reverse engineers" his work. You're not only an idiot, you're a liar. You were screaming about intellectual property rights and all kinds of other bullshit. And now you want everyone to believe you told someone else to feel free to rip off your design. HORSESHIT. Just more of the same crap from you. Always trying to cast dispersions on others to make up for your own inadequacies. Pretty pathetic, to be quite honest.

I don't need to research a bottom feeder like you. After reading your posts long enough and watching you stumble through logic like a blind man through an obstacle course, it was a pretty good guess that you never finished high school.

And the gist of the story was to express my shared dissatisfaction with Joe on customer service, follow up and turn around time on projects. Not that you'd know the difference between a gist and an aside.

Get over the fact that I didn't want to use your heads and quit fucking up this guy's thread. Seriously. The fact that you follow me around and try to shit up any thread I post in is kind of creepy. Like deviant stalker creepy. I thought your meds were supposed to help you stay a little more "level".

[MiSdIrEcTeD_1]

Let's just say, hypothetically, that someone had a set of your heads and one of your ported manifolds for an almost unlimited amount of time....like 8 months. I'm no expert, so I'm going to ask the question: Would it be possible for a person with good working knowledge of mechanics and the use of a mic, to determine intake and exhaust port sizes, port volumes, spring types, part numbers and then port all their own heads and manifolds using yours as a guide?


I seriously doubt anyone would waste 8 months studying a one-off set of hand-ported heads. And, as far as spring types and part numbers, we are talking 30 minutes time to disassemble to see and order matching parts...

[martyb]

When my car was at Joes for heads/cam, he did tell me that he used a set of Greg's heads as a guide. I assumed Greg knew that Joe was doing this, Joe did not tell me to keep it quiet. This was in late 2006.

martyb

[Red Snake]

Jeez, talk about a thread getting off course.:lol:


Anyone have any dyno sheets to show with a stock motor, Roe and a small shot?:eatpop:

[martyb]

Call Joe(or stop by), he has done many from what I understand, he and I talked about it when he had my car. I think he told me he was getting like 130 ft pounds on a 60 shot.

[No Man]

800 rwhp 908 rwtq with a wet shot.

[Greg Good]

Mark, I'm not going to bother finishing your meltdown post. I stopped partway through after reading several false remarks.

You abandoned any claim to the manifold porting I did at *my expense* when you pulled the plug on the project. It's not completely Joe's fault the build wasn't finished. He's not the only guy in the United States that installs heads. You could even have had your local dealer install the heads/intake and taken the car to someone for a tune. You went in a different direction...and that is completely fine.

Joe asked for and received permission over 5 years ago to reverse engineer my stuff. He did nothing wrong there.

No I did not like that your heads ended up at your second tuner. I took a lot of heat on your heads with the bogus flow numbers, the second guessing about the way they were done, etc. that led to some mopping up to protect my name. That is what usually happens.

Roe applications are like restrictor plate racing in NASCAR. You don't have anywhere near the airflow of a Paxton or TT setup, and the focus shifts towards better wet flow and efficiency. Higher BSAC (brake specific air consumption) numbers tell you how efficient the head is. A higher number means more hp per cfm of air. There are things inside of an intake port and valve sizing that can be done to improve wet flow at the expense of a little cfm. It's like a see-saw. I've been wet flowing heads and making hp gains from what I've learned from that R&D since the 1980's. My porting has run the quickest and fastest Roe times as a result. You're not the authority on any of this stuff even though you would like to be.

I'll give you a good example of how wet flow can completely change an engine's output. Larry Wallace took the best running set of Ford heads Yates had, went down on valve sizes, and relocated them in the chamber for max wet flow. The first set of them we bought and ported for a drag race engine flowed about 15 cfm less than what we had, but made 45 more horsepower.

As a result of your lies and bullshit I don't do anymore of those Roe heads. I just do the high flowing heads because it protects me from the *know-it-alls* . Flow numbers sell heads, so now when someone asks for a set of Roe heads I give them TT heads.

Have a nice day.

[jasonmiddletn]

If your heads are so great why do none of the top tuners use your heads? I've read and heard nothing but bad things about you and your quality of work? Why is your reputation so bad on all of these forums? I'm just repeating what I've heard others say about you, so don't take it personally. I'm not trying to start a fight here, just pointing out the facts. Maybe you can clue some of us in here and clear the air. I'm never going to waste my money on a set of your head, so if you choose not to get into it on a public I'm cool with that too.

Here we go with the he said she said bullshit!! :rolleyes:

I thought you were stating the "facts" fuck face? Oh but you heard it from someone else so it could be un-true correct? :finger:

[torquemonster]

Mark, I'm not going to bother finishing your meltdown post. I stopped partway through after reading several false remarks.

You abandoned any claim to the manifold porting I did at *my expense* when you pulled the plug on the project. It's not completely Joe's fault the build wasn't finished. He's not the only guy in the United States that installs heads. You could even have had your local dealer install the heads/intake and taken the car to someone for a tune. You went in a different direction...and that is completely fine.

Joe asked for and received permission over 5 years ago to reverse engineer my stuff. He did nothing wrong there.

No I did not like that your heads ended up at your second tuner. I took a lot of heat on your heads with the bogus flow numbers, the second guessing about the way they were done, etc. that led to some mopping up to protect my name. That is what usually happens.

Roe applications are like restrictor plate racing in NASCAR. You don't have anywhere near the airflow of a Paxton or TT setup, and the focus shifts towards better wet flow and efficiency. Higher BSAC (brake specific air consumption) numbers tell you how efficient the head is. A higher number means more hp per cfm of air. There are things inside of an intake port and valve sizing that can be done to improve wet flow at the expense of a little cfm. It's like a see-saw. I've been wet flowing heads and making hp gains from what I've learned from that R&D since the 1980's. My porting has run the quickest and fastest Roe times as a result. You're not the authority on any of this stuff even though you would like to be.

I'll give you a good example of how wet flow can completely change an engine's output. Larry Wallace took the best running set of Ford heads Yates had, went down on valve sizes, and relocated them in the chamber for max wet flow. The first set of them we bought and ported for a drag race engine flowed about 15 cfm less than what we had, but made 45 more horsepower.

As a result of your lies and bullshit I don't do anymore of those Roe heads. I just do the high flowing heads because it protects me from the *know-it-alls* . Flow numbers sell heads, so now when someone asks for a set of Roe heads I give them TT heads.

Have a nice day.

I don't have a dog in this fight but Greg is 100% right about wet flow being more important than cfm in some applications. It's not all about peak cfm at all.

comparing heads on cfm is just for customers who want bragging rights but don't need to win.

same with comparing cams based on lift and duration at a set lift

if you knew what the top racers did to break records it would undo what a lot of folk think they know. Conventional thought is only good until you come up against someone a step or two ahead.... then the established theory just went down the crapper

[mnviper]

800 rwhp 908 rwtq with a wet shot.
Could you provide any more details on your set up? Is this a 10# Roe or something else? What are your base numbers?
Thanks.

[No Man]

Could you provide any more details on your set up? Is this a 10# Roe or something else? What are your base numbers?
Thanks.


Heads, cam, rockers, Weaver crank pulley, w/m, 70mm tb's, Belanger headers, ny-trex triple threat. 707/725

[bushido]

Heads, cam, rockers, Weaver crank pulley, w/m, 70mm tb's, Belanger headers, ny-trex triple threat. 707/725

You dumbass. Why dont you tell us who wrenched on your Viper. And who tuned it..

[No Man]

You dumbass. Why dont you tell us who wrenched on your Viper. And who tuned it..


You should never use the word dumbass when addressing anyone else. You should however, consider it for a tattoo.

[bushido]

You should never use the word dumbass when addressing anyone else. You should however, consider it for a tattoo.

You shouldnt own a Viper..

[No Man]

You shouldnt own a Viper..

You shouldn't have internet access.

[bushido]

You shouldn't have internet access.

Why are you so hush hush about your Viper?

[No Man]

Why are you so hush hush about your Viper?

There's something about being interrogated by a Jap that just doesn't sit well with me.

[bushido]

There's something about being interrogated by a Jap that just doesn't sit well with me.

Its not like you have a 1500hp twin turboed beast..

[Greg Good]

If your heads are so great why do none of the top tuners use your heads? I've read and heard nothing but bad things about you and your quality of work? Why is your reputation so bad on all of these forums? I'm just repeating what I've heard others say about you, so don't take it personally. I'm not trying to start a fight here, just pointing out the facts. Maybe you can clue some of us in here and clear the air. I'm never going to waste my money on a set of your head, so if you choose not to get into it on a public I'm cool with that too.

Well, it's because tuners are hard to fool. Look at the head below. It's from a set I finished today. Now, what tuner with a conscience would ever put some bullshit junk like that on a car?


http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9da04b3127ccec6a68054614000000040O01AcNGrlk5csQ e3nw0/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/


I can sucker in a Viper noob every now and then, but a tuner? No way. :lol:

Evidently you're a smart guy, and it looks like I'll miss out on taking your cash. Oh well, I can't win them all. The guy that owns these heads is from England. I'm having a harder time sticking it to Viper owners over here thanks to whistelblowers like you and Mark, so I've started looking overseas to find fresh meat. :D

[No Man]

Its not like you have a 1500hp twin turboed beast..

After watching you frequently respond to comments in a manner that is totally without correlation to the topic at hand, either by logic or deductive reasoning, I have come to conclude the following. You are of the mistaken opinion that a Thesaurus is a reptile from the Jurassic period.

[No Man]

I'm going to bed now, with the full knowledge that bushido is less than two posts away from responding with "I like tater tots."

[bushido]

After watching you frequently respond to comments in a manner that is totally without correlation to the topic.

My post to you was in correlation with this thread. Regarding MnViper's post to be exact. He asked you for some details regarding your Viper. Your answer to him was incomplete.. What good is it to tell someone what modified parts you have on your car. When you dont tell them who tuned it, and at what shop?

[No Man]

My post to you was in correlation with this thread. Regarding MnViper's post to be exact. He asked you for some details regarding your Viper. Your answer to him was incomplete.. What good is it to tell someone what modified parts you have on your car. When you dont tell them who tuned it, and at what shop?

Here's a little advice for you as you go forward in life. When you win the war, you get to ask the questions. You didn't, so shut the fuck up.

[No Man]

Here's a little advice for me going forward. Stop throwing high inside fast balls when your batter is on his knees with his Louisville Slugger flat in the dirt, waiting for a grounder.

[Red Snake]

800 rwhp 908 rwtq with a wet shot.

Heads, cam, rockers, Weaver crank pulley, w/m, 70mm tb's, Belanger headers, ny-trex triple threat. 707/725

Cool. This is the info I'm talking about. Nice set up.:thumbs:

[Red Snake]

I heard the same shit about you being a Simpleton fuckbag from others and it turned out to be true, so what's your fucking point shitbag!?:lol:

This is not AG. Stop shitting on this thread.


Good and Bravo have legit issues in this area. You do not. Take it somewhere else.:thumbs:

[bushido]

Here's a little advice for me going forward. Stop throwing high inside fast balls when your batter is on his knees with his Louisville Slugger flat in the dirt, waiting for a grounder.

Here's a little advice for you as you go forward in life. When you win the war, you get to ask the questions. You didn't, so shut the fuck up.

Your drifting off..

[99 RT/10]

Last I heard, no man's Roe car was done by a Florida tuner and a hell of a nice guy. I think UGR is afraid to touch anything that resembles a smashed mailbox :rofl::rofl: