Dirt Bike Question

[Casey111]

So i got the chance to go riding this last weekend and have decided i need one. I really dont have much of a clue what is best for me though. I am a complete rookie. The 34 mile poker run i went on was equal to 3/4 of the total time spent on a bike.

Around here i would be doing alot of desert trail riding. Im not into flying into the air and contorting my body and bike around while praying i land on two wheels. I just want something that i can i ride on a trail and crack open the throttle when i get used to riding.

I got to putt around on a 07 or 08 ( cant remember which) Yamaha WR450 and as far a physical size it felt good, just a little to much grunt to start out on IMO.

I know there are some avid riders on here, what do you suggest?

[jasonmiddletn]

I'm into ATVs but my wife does have a KX dirt bike. Sadi would be the guy to ask this question!

[The Former PFR]

Used XR400 or XR600 is a good desert bike and is super easy on maintanence. You also don't have to worry about a cooling system, which always would be a concern for me if I was out in the desert.

[Casey111]

Paging Sadi.

[Sadistic]

I raced motocross for about 6 years and never found desert or trail riding to be very interesting so you would be doing different riding than I have done. Even so, my input will be of some use. Without a doubt, Honda is the best built dirt bike made and has been since about 1983 or so. KTM is also a very well built bike in the category that you are interested in. However, I think that Honda should be your first choice based on parts availability and price.

Are you a Viper owner? If you are, then you like big power and will get bored of a small bore bike, in short order. However, a CRF450 might be too big a jump for you, initially. Therefore, my suggestion would be to buy a used Honda CRF250, then once you get bored of it and have acquired some riding skills, move up to the enduro version of the Honda CRF450 or possibly a KTM. I would never suggest a KTM for motocross but they make some excellent enduro bikes. 4 stroke bikes handle far better than 2 strokes because of smooth building power, whereas 2 strokes light up too quickly and make the bike "squirrely". There is a reason that all pro motocross racers ride 4 strokes and it is because of the quality of power and how it affects handling. A 4 stroke makes much more controllable power so it will be easier for you to learn on, also.

TheformerPFR made a suggestion about air cooled bikes over water cooled. The problem is that air cooled bikes are neanderthals when it comes to modern technology (frame geometry, suspension, etc). Air cooled bikes are also far more likely to break down, unless of course, you crash your nuts off and pop a hole in your radiator of your water cooled bike. Water cooled bikes maintain the same hp during use, while air cooled bikes lose significant power as they heat up.

I expect Honda to update their enduro CRF450 to use the chassis of their '09 CRF450 motocross racer by next year or so. Presently, their enduro version of the CRF450 is based on the previous generation of motocross bikes. When they change over to the newest generation frame geometry, it will be a good time to buy it. Until then, buy yourself a lightweight CRF250 Honda and have a blast. Remember that proper technique is the key to riding well and if you need any tips on that, let me know.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to help.

[tucker]

What have you done with Sadi?

[HIGHPSI]

I raced motocross for about 6 years and never found desert or trail riding to be very interesting so you would be doing different riding than I have done. Even so, my input will be of some use. Without a doubt, Honda is the best built dirt bike made and has been since about 1983 or so. KTM is also a very well built bike in the category that you are interested in. However, I think that Honda should be your first choice based on parts availability and price.

Are you a Viper owner? If you are, then you like big power and will get bored of a small bore bike, in short order. However, a CRF450 might be too big a jump for you, initially. Therefore, my suggestion would be to buy a used Honda CRF250, then once you get bored of it and have acquired some riding skills, move up to the enduro version of the Honda CRF450 or possibly a KTM. I would never suggest a KTM for motocross but they make some excellent enduro bikes. 4 stroke bikes handle far better than 2 strokes because of smooth building power, whereas 2 strokes light up too quickly and make the bike "squirrely". There is a reason that all pro motocross racers ride 4 strokes and it is because of the quality of power and how it affects handling. A 4 stroke makes much more controllable power so it will be easier for you to learn on, also.

TheformerPFR made a suggestion about air cooled bikes over water cooled. The problem is that air cooled bikes are neanderthals when it comes to modern technology (frame geometry, suspension, etc). Air cooled bikes are also far more likely to break down, unless of course, you crash your nuts off and pop a hole in your radiator of your water cooled bike. Water cooled bikes maintain the same hp during use, while air cooled bikes lose significant power as they heat up.

I expect Honda to update their enduro CRF450 to use the chassis of their '09 CRF450 motocross racer by next year or so. Presently, their enduro version of the CRF450 is based on the previous generation of motocross bikes. When they change over to the newest generation frame geometry, it will be a good time to buy it. Until then, buy yourself a lightweight CRF250 Honda and have a blast. Remember that proper technique is the key to riding well and if you need any tips on that, let me know.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to help.


A crf450 is way to much for him to start out on. It is a badass bike though.

[Casey111]

I raced motocross for about 6 years and never found desert or trail riding to be very interesting so you would be doing different riding than I have done. Even so, my input will be of some use. Without a doubt, Honda is the best built dirt bike made and has been since about 1983 or so. KTM is also a very well built bike in the category that you are interested in. However, I think that Honda should be your first choice based on parts availability and price.

Are you a Viper owner? If you are, then you like big power and will get bored of a small bore bike, in short order. However, a CRF450 might be too big a jump for you, initially. Therefore, my suggestion would be to buy a used Honda CRF250, then once you get bored of it and have acquired some riding skills, move up to the enduro version of the Honda CRF450 or possibly a KTM. I would never suggest a KTM for motocross but they make some excellent enduro bikes. 4 stroke bikes handle far better than 2 strokes because of smooth building power, whereas 2 strokes light up too quickly and make the bike "squirrely". There is a reason that all pro motocross racers ride 4 strokes and it is because of the quality of power and how it affects handling. A 4 stroke makes much more controllable power so it will be easier for you to learn on, also.

TheformerPFR made a suggestion about air cooled bikes over water cooled. The problem is that air cooled bikes are neanderthals when it comes to modern technology (frame geometry, suspension, etc). Air cooled bikes are also far more likely to break down, unless of course, you crash your nuts off and pop a hole in your radiator of your water cooled bike. Water cooled bikes maintain the same hp during use, while air cooled bikes lose significant power as they heat up.

I expect Honda to update their enduro CRF450 to use the chassis of their '09 CRF450 motocross racer by next year or so. Presently, their enduro version of the CRF450 is based on the previous generation of motocross bikes. When they change over to the newest generation frame geometry, it will be a good time to buy it. Until then, buy yourself a lightweight CRF250 Honda and have a blast. Remember that proper technique is the key to riding well and if you need any tips on that, let me know.

If you have any further questions, feel free to ask and I'll do my best to help.
Thanks for the reply and info. Good stuff. Im not a viper owner but i do like power. However, i like to being healthy so im going to do some risk management and start on something i can handle.:lol:

I got to know a KTM dealer recently whom i might have to go talk to and see what he can turn up for me. I will look into Honda's in the meantime.

[Sadistic]

A crf450 is way to much for him to start out on. It is a badass bike though.

That is why I suggested that he find himself a lightly used CRF 250 to start off with. Better yet, there are some leftover brand new ones at dealers in my area. Maybe he can find some similar deals where he lives.

[Sadistic]

Thanks for the reply and info. Good stuff. Im not a viper owner but i do like power. However, i like to being healthy so im going to do some risk management and start on something i can handle.:lol:

I got to know a KTM dealer recently whom i might have to go talk to and see what he can turn up for me. I will look into Honda's in the meantime.


Casey, there are lots of leftover CRF250's going for very low prices at dealerships. Scout around and if you don't find any in your area, let me know. They are dumping them for very low prices where I live. These bikes are very light, great handling and have very smooth, controllable power.

[Sadistic]

Thanks for the reply and info. Good stuff. Im not a viper owner but i do like power. However, i like to being healthy so im going to do some risk management and start on something i can handle.:lol:

I got to know a KTM dealer recently whom i might have to go talk to and see what he can turn up for me. I will look into Honda's in the meantime.


Go for a Honda first, Casey. Make it a priority. You'll thank me later.

[The Former PFR]

TheformerPFR made a suggestion about air cooled bikes over water cooled. The problem is that air cooled bikes are neanderthals when it comes to modern technology (frame geometry, suspension, etc). Air cooled bikes are also far more likely to break down, unless of course, you crash your nuts off and pop a hole in your radiator of your water cooled bike. Water cooled bikes maintain the same hp during use, while air cooled bikes lose significant power as they heat up.

I'll absolutely give you the fact that the air cooled bikes were not advanced from a frame or suspension point of view, but then again, they also don't have the fatigue fracture problems inherent with an Aluminum frame. For putzing around in the desert in a straight line (like you usually do in the desert), they're fine. However, what I won't give you is anything regarding reliability. The old XR motors have to be about the most reliable bike engines ever made. They are damned near impossible to break. The new engines run on a hair's edge and are far closer to the limit. That's just not what I want in the middle of the desert.

Absolutely, a new CRF450 (and yes, Honda is my bike of choice as well) will rape an XR400 or XR600 around a race track and would pull the 400 in a straight line. But depending on the type of riding, an older 400 or 600 will require less maintainence and is so simple that it is less likely to break, or be unfixable in the field. The new engines require new rings every 70-100 hours, which for many isn't even a full season.

[Sadistic]

I'll absolutely give you the fact that the air cooled bikes were not advanced from a frame or suspension point of view, but then again, they also don't have the fatigue fracture problems inherent with an Aluminum frame. For putzing around in the desert in a straight line (like you usually do in the desert), they're fine. However, what I won't give you is anything regarding reliability. The old XR motors have to be about the most reliable bike engines ever made. They are damned near impossible to break. The new engines run on a hair's edge and are far closer to the limit. That's just not what I want in the middle of the desert.

Absolutely, a new CRF450 (and yes, Honda is my bike of choice as well) will rape an XR400 or XR600 around a race track and would pull the 400 in a straight line. But depending on the type of riding, an older 400 or 600 will require less maintainence and is so simple that it is less likely to break, or be unfixable in the field.

PFR, you have to be kidding when you suggest that aluminum frames have fatigue fracture problems! LMAO!! I have jumped my aluminum framed CR's and CRF's over 80 feet, slammed them through whoops and so on. They are far more sturdy than the chrome moly frames of yesteryear, probably because they are much thicker. Those older playbikes that you are talking about handle like shit compared to a modern chassis. The better a bike handles, the more fun it is to ride.

I don't have experience with the type of bikes that you mentioned so I will not dispute that they are low stress, very dependable rides. Honda motocross bikes are extremely reliable and that is one of their qualities that surpass the other brands. I would not say that they "run on a hair's edge". LOL!! I've raced CR500's for a full season on a single top end without any problems at all. Of course, those were 2 strokes.

I'm just thinking that he will outgrow the playbikes too quickly, whereas the more serious and technologically advanced CRF250X will give him a lot more area to grow into. Remember that this is the detuned version of the motocrosser that I am suggesting, with headlights, quieter exhaust and a toned down powerplant. It would be ideal for him.

[Casey111]

I talked to a few people and most seemed to suggest a 4-stroke because of the power band. But iv also heard that 4-strokes seems to require more in maintainance, also that 2-strokes seem to foul plugs if you arent in the throttle all the time. Wheres the truth?

[Sadistic]

I talked to a few people and most seemed to suggest a 4-stroke because of the power band. But iv also heard that 4-strokes seems to require more in maintainance, also that 2-strokes seem to foul plugs if you arent in the throttle all the time. Wheres the truth?

2 strokes are very simple motors but they are screamers and can foul plugs if you putt around too much or do not jet them correctly. They can be a bit finicky, blow lots of smoke (oil/gas mixture) and are loud. Trust me when I tell you that the Honda CRF250X is the bike for you. It will be very dependable, great handling, quiet and a whole lot of fun. 2 strokes run through their power very quickly and sign off. 4 strokes have much better quality power and it lasts much longer. 4 strokes handle much better in my opinion, even when they are a bit heavier because their type of power helps keep the bike straight without the fishtailing nonsense of 2 stroke bikes.

[Casey111]

2 strokes are very simple motors but they are screamers and can foul plugs if you putt around too much or do not jet them correctly. They can be a bit finicky, blow lots of smoke (oil/gas mixture) and are loud. Trust me when I tell you that the Honda CRF250X is the bike for you. It will be very dependable, great handling, quiet and a whole lot of fun. 2 strokes run through their power very quickly and sign off. 4 strokes have much better quality power and it lasts much longer. 4 strokes handle much better in my opinion, even when they are a bit heavier because their type of power helps keep the bike straight without the fishtailing nonsense of 2 stroke bikes.
Thanks for the help, ill look around.

[The Former PFR]

PFR, you have to be kidding when you suggest that aluminum frames have fatigue fracture problems! LMAO!! I have jumped my aluminum framed CR's and CRF's over 80 feet, slammed them through whoops and so on. They are far more sturdy than the chrome moly frames of yesteryear, probably because they are much thicker. Those older playbikes that you are talking about handle like shit compared to a modern chassis. The better a bike handles, the more fun it is to ride.



Apparently you don't know what Fatigue Fracture is, so I won't argue further. In a nutshell, as a material is stressed over and over again, it develops micro defects. These small defects continue to get worse on Aluminum. This trend continues forever until failure. This is why airframes are taken out of service after so many pressure cycles and why Aloha airlines had two planes lose their roofs. Steel levels out at around 50% of its original yield strength after 100,000 cycles, give or take. So, while an Aluminum frame may start tougher (resistance to outright failure), or stiffer (resistance to deflection), or stronger (resistance towards deformation), eventually it will be lower than steel in all of these regards. How long this takes is a matter of how and where you ride, but I wouldn't be surprised if it could happen inside 5 years.

As far as handling is concerned, I have ridden newer motorcross bikes and I have ridden the old heavyweights. On a track, I would not want to be on the old bikes. Out on open trails, I really think the difference would be fairly minimal for a beginner/moderate rider just out there trying to have fun.

BTW...don't get me wrong. I think the CRF250x is a fantastic bike and a good recommendation.

[HIGHPSI]

That is why I suggested that he find himself a lightly used CRF 250 to start off with. Better yet, there are some leftover brand new ones at dealers in my area. Maybe he can find some similar deals where he lives.


Your right the CRF 250 would be my choice.

[Sadistic]

Here is my latest dirt bike. It's the Gen 4 ACR of the dirt bike world.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk288/Sadistic97/2009CRF450.jpg

[HIGHPSI]

Here is my latest dirt bike. It's the Gen 4 ACR of the dirt bike world.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk288/Sadistic97/2009CRF450.jpg


Nice!!!!!!!!!

[Sadistic]

Here's a pic of me racing in the mid 90's on a Honda CR250.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk288/Sadistic97/printpics2003.jpg

[Casey111]

I feel like im going to get flamed for this, but i would really like electric start :yep:


PFR, dont take this wrong, but you are so an engineer :lol:

[Sadistic]

I feel like im going to get flamed for this, but i would really like electric start :yep:


PFR, dont take this wrong, but you are so an engineer :lol:

Casey, there's nothing wrong with wanting electric start but it should be a secondary aspect of your decision. I had a brand new KTM 520EXC at my house for a while and used it. I loved the bike but the electric start did not last very long before the battery went dead. KTM makes an awesome big bore enduro. They are a good choice also.

Here is a pic of a 1991 CR500 2 stroke. Believe it or not, I still have this novelty.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk288/Sadistic97/91CR500.jpg

[The Former PFR]

Casey, there's nothing wrong with wanting electric start but it should be a secondary aspect of your decision. I had a brand new KTM 520EXC at my house for a while and used it. I loved the bike but the electric start did not last very long before the battery went dead. KTM makes an awesome big bore enduro. They are a good choice also.

Here is a pic of a 1991 CR500 2 stroke. Believe it or not, I still have this novelty.

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/kk288/Sadistic97/91CR500.jpg

I still have the 1996 Honda Brochure for the entire lineup. They described the CR500 as having "slightly less power than a nuclear power plant."

[Casey111]

Is ktm the only Manufacturer who offers both electric and kick as backups for eachother?

[Sadistic]

Is ktm the only Manufacturer who offers both electric and kick as backups for eachother?

I believe that KTM is the only one with hydraulic clutches and electric start. It's a class bike and very solid. However, it has a linkless rear shock setup, which is quite dated. For the sort of riding you will be doing it won't be a problem. For hardcore supercross & motocross, it sucks. You should be able to get a much better deal on a leftover Honda CRF250X than you can on a KTM. Otherwise, either would be a great choice for the type of riding you will be doing.

[The Former PFR]

The Honda CRFX bikes have electric start.

[Sadistic]

The Honda CRFX bikes have electric start.

I didn't know that. Honda CRF250X all the way, Casey. PFR, in response to your statement about the CR500 power, why do you think I never sold the CR500? :D:thumbs:

[The Former PFR]

I didn't know that. Honda CRF250X all the way, Casey.

My guess is that they figure the trail rider doesn't really care about the extra few pounds when the convenience is undeniable.

[Casey111]

Im going to do a little searching around tomarrow. Got to drive the KTM dealer and there is a honda guy here in town. Ill let ya'll know what they say as far was pricing and such when i get done :thumbs:


Edit: just checked and the honda does have electronic and kick. That just may be the bike. I still want to talk to the ktm guy just because he may be able to cut me a good deal. Otherwise, im pretty sold on the honda.

[Sadistic]

My guess is that they figure the trail rider doesn't really care about the extra few pounds when the convenience is undeniable. No doubt.

[onguardjeff]

I agree about the 4 cycle vs 2 cycle for you.
2 cycles are wicked fast at the top end but 4 cycles are power all through the power band.

I would also ask Viper Spray over at the Alley. He knows a lot.

[GaryA]

Just my 2 cents here, but I had a Suzuki DRZ-400 which is a dual sport bike and I loved it. That means it has all the amenities (electric start, lights, etc.) of a street bike and is just as comfortable in the dirt. You can license it for riding on the street which is nice for getting to/from the riding areas. It's also pretty good in the desert and in the hills. It has a lot of torque (4-stroker) and was given a lot of high marks from hardcore motocrossers.

Of course, if you don't want to ride it on the street, you can change the gearing and put some full knobbies on it for dirt riding.

[Casey111]

Just my 2 cents here, but I had a Suzuki DRZ-400 which is a dual sport bike and I loved it. That means it has all the amenities (electric start, lights, etc.) of a street bike and is just as comfortable in the dirt. You can license it for riding on the street which is nice for getting to/from the riding areas. It's also pretty good in the desert and in the hills. It has a lot of torque (4-stroker) and was given a lot of high marks from hardcore motocrossers.

Of course, if you don't want to ride it on the street, you can change the gearing and put some full knobbies on it for dirt riding.
Sounds cool and its a pretty good looking duel sport. Due to some problems iv created for my self however, me being an insured motorcycle rider on the street isn't an option :cursin:

[Sadistic]

The DRZ400 is a good option only if you are going to register it and ride it on the street. It sacrifices a lot of performance, handling etc. in order to be street legal. If you do not plan to ride on the street, then stick to either a KTM EXC250 4 stroke or Honda CRF250X. The DRZ400 is very heavy compared to a CRF250 and the tires on it are street tires. If you take a heavy bike like that on desert sand, you will be picking yourself off the ground 10 times per mile.

[Casey111]

Well i just got back from driving around. I stopped at a few different places and looked at Honda and KTM. The KTM dealer was pretty cool, which is why i thought i should talk to him. He had a 2008 200XC-W with 79X miles on it that he said i could get for 4k. I asked him about the 250XCF-W and he said its a good bike but the 200 is lighter and more nimble and once i get comfortible will be faster then the 250. It is a two stroke but has a six speed wide ration gear box and said it would be a great bike for me to start on. This goes along with what i was told by an older guy i know who rides one in the exact areas i would be doing most of my riding in.

He only had one used 200 which was what he showed me and so he got on his computer. The only ones they had were reconditioned factory bikes that were selling in the upper 6k range with miles. He told me he could make me a better deal then that for a brand new 09.

I looked at the Honda CRF250X and my first impression was it was big! Granted the sag wasnt set and it was brand new, so i imagine there would be some settling in the suspension. It was in the showroom next to a 09 CRF450 and was quite a bittle taller, i couldnt figure that out.

The problem with the 200 for me is no electric start. However, it is 40 something pounds lighter then the honda. Althought the honda is mesured with fluid. The KTM says no fuel but i dont know about the rest of the fluids. Thats quite a bit of weight difference one way or another, especially considering my size.

What do ya think?

[InjOnly]

You seem to be getting pretty good advice from Sadi and PFR so I'm hesitant to add anything other than the fact a 200 may be a little small for you depending on your size.
You don't want to constantly shifting because the power band is too short.

[Sadistic]

Injonly is correct in that the 2 stroke has a much shorter powerband. 2 strokes are very one dimensional and are best suited for wide open racing. A 4 stroke has a much wider powerband and is more controllable.
I am sure that the CRF250X is a bit heavier than the CRF250R
but there is no way in holy hell that it is 40 pounds heavier than a KTM200. Perhaps the KTM is based on a 125 2 stroke?

For starters, euro suspensions suck, always have and always will. Whether you go KTM or Honda, stick with a 4 stroke 250. You want predictable, controllable and steady power since this is your first bike. 2 strokes lack torque and if you get into some technical situations, torque is what you will want, not a light switch powerband. I think the KTM dealer is giving you inaccurate information. Yes, a 2 stroke 200 should have more peak power than a 4 stroke 250 but it is the quality of the power that is more important.

Be careful about taking advice from "old timers" since most of them are stuck in the "those were the days" mentality and are not willing to come to grips with the fact that 4 strokes are superior to 2 strokes at this point.

[The Former PFR]

Injonly is correct in that the 2 stroke has a much shorter powerband. 2 strokes are very one dimensional and are best suited for wide open racing. A 4 stroke has a much wider powerband and is more controllable.
I am sure that the CRF250X is a bit heavier than the CRF250R
but there is no way in holy hell that it is 40 pounds heavier than a KTM200. Perhaps the KTM is based on a 125 2 stroke?

For starters, euro suspensions suck, always have and always will. Whether you go KTM or Honda, stick with a 4 stroke 250. You want predictable, controllable and steady power since this is your first bike. 2 strokes lack torque and if you get into some technical situations, torque is what you will want, not a light switch powerband. I think the KTM dealer is giving you inaccurate information. Yes, a 2 stroke 200 should have more peak power than a 4 stroke 250 but it is the quality of the power that is more important.

Be careful about taking advice from "old timers" since most of them are stuck in the "those were the days" mentality and are not willing to come to grips with the fact that 4 strokes are superior to 2 strokes at this point.

Very true. I think its hard for people to believe just how crazy the powerband on a 2 stroke is until they ride one. I had a Yamaha 250 dual sport. So, I had a tach and speedometer. Up until almost EXACTLY 6000 RPM, my old Honda 50 would beat that bike and I am not exaggerating. At the instant I hit 6k, the rear tire would start spinning and the front end would get awfully light. A 4 stroke is vastly more "ridable" (especially for a beginner), than any two stroke. The fouling plugs thing is absolutely real as well and they can be an absolute mofo to start if they are feeling onery.

[Sadistic]

Very true. I think its hard for people to believe just how crazy the powerband on a 2 stroke is until they ride one. I had a Yamaha 250 dual sport. So, I had a tach and speedometer. Up until almost EXACTLY 6000 RPM, my old Honda 50 would beat that bike and I am not exaggerating. At the instant I hit 6k, the rear tire would start spinning and the front end would get awfully light. A 4 stroke is vastly more "ridable" (especially for a beginner), than any two stroke. The fouling plugs thing is absolutely real as well and they can be an absolute mofo to start if they are feeling onery.

Very well stated.
When I was racing in the 90's, half of the effort in riding was dealing with the short, explosive 2 stroke motors and how it affected handling. With a 2 stroke, you could not afford any mistakes when approaching multi jumps, or you might not clear them. Modern 4 strokes allow the rider to relax more and concentrate on other things, which improves their riding level. Buying a 2 stroke in 2009 is a step backward. Yeah, you can do it but why would you want to?

[Casey111]

Well those kind of answers are exactly waht i was hoping for, so thank you. Once i have the down payment cash in hand i will go back to him and tell him exactly what i want and he will sell it to me.

[Sadistic]

Well those kind of answers are exactly waht i was hoping for, so thank you. Once i have the down payment cash in hand i will go back to him and tell him exactly what i want and he will sell it to me.

They have hookers at this dealership??

[Casey111]

Dont know. The guy has a really hot wife though :thumbs:

[Sadistic]

Dont know. The guy has a really hot wife though :thumbs:

Wow! Talk about customer service. Out of all the dirt bikes I have owned over the years, I never had a dealer offer his wife with the purchase of a new bike. If only GM thought of this, they wouldn't be on the verge of bankruptcy. Before you sign any papers, make sure she swallows.