A super charger kit better than others?

[Kanaljen]

So I've been reading and learning about Gen 2 vipers to become an informed buyer one of this days..

Narrowed down my interest to a B/W 96 or 97 GTS.

Lots of them have super charger kits already installed.. at first, I wasn't too interested, but more and more, I feel open to consider a GTS with a SC kit installed..

My question: Which SC kits are better, which ones are of inferior quality, lesser hp/tq, more reliable, "nicer" to a stock engine, etc, etc?? Would a twinscrew kit be the only wait to go or should one prefer a centrifugal SC?? For example, is ROE the only way to go/the one kit to stay away from etc?

Installation and tuning is key too.. so any suggestion on what to look for/stay away from would be great too!

Thanks for your time and help!
:thumbs:

[No Man]

You can't go wrong with either the ROE or the Paxton. I have the ROE and love it.

[Kanaljen]

Thanks!

Is it correct that the Paxton always uses a centrifugal-type system?

And, ROE is always a twin-screw type, sitting on top of the engine?

Or, is it different between years? (Like the early ones used a inferior SC unit and you should stay away, while the newer model (from the same brand) use a better unit, producing more hp/tq, more reliably, etc)

If you would ask me these question about SC option for the BMW 3-series, I would be able to ramble off some brands (ESS, Active, HPF) and also some differences between the years (some earlier model was centrifugal, later had Lysholm twinscrew models with built in water/air colils, etc) and be able to provide an opinion on what to buy for which budget and and which kits to stay away from since the software is bad or the service/support is terrible and/or non-local to US, etc etc...

What about Smog legal? I saw a Paxton kit for sale and it had a 50 state legal CARB number..

[No Man]

Thanks!

Is it correct that the Paxton always uses a centrifugal-type system?

And, ROE is always a twin-screw type, sitting on top of the engine?

Or, is it different between years? (Like the early ones used a inferior SC unit and you should stay away, while the newer model (from the same brand) use a better unit, producing more hp/tq, more reliably, etc)

If you would ask me these question about SC option for the BMW 3-series, I would be able to ramble off some brands (ESS, Active, HPF) and also some differences between the years (some earlier model was centrifugal, later had Lysholm twinscrew models with built in water/air colils, etc) and be able to provide an opinion on what to buy for which budget and and which kits to stay away from since the software is bad or the service/support is terrible and/or non-local to US, etc etc...

What about Smog legal? I saw a Paxton kit for sale and it had a 50 state legal CARB number..

The Paxton is a centrifugal and the ROE is a twin screw. Who installed and tuned them is the issue I would be most concerned with. Show us examples of cars you are considering and you will get a free opinion.

[bushido]

You can't go wrong with either the ROE or the Paxton. I have the ROE and love it.

Can you tell us more?

[No Man]

Can you tell us more?


That you would understand? NO

[bushido]

That you would understand? NO

Come on Im all ears..

[No Man]

Come on Im all ears..

With nothing in between.

[Red Snake]

If you are looking for a good street machine go with the Roe. It can be had and installed cheaper than the Paxton and will make lots of torque down low with a stock motor. :thumbs:

[Kanaljen]

Thanks for your input!
Just FYI, here are two cars F/S with SC kits....

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=258319282&dealer_id=63799209&car_year=1996&rdm=1250705729801&model=VIPER&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&mod_bookmark_id=27126096&start_year=1996&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&color2=&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=DODGE&keywords_display=&color=BLUE&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=distance&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=distance&address=92117&advanced=y&end_year=1997&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=2195&standard=false

Another one (sold though)
Roe/Heads/Cam Gen 1, approx 690rwhp (update: SOLD!) - ViperForums.net Dodge Viper Forum



The Paxton is a centrifugal and the ROE is a twin screw. Who installed and tuned them is the issue I would be most concerned with. Show us examples of cars you are considering and you will get a free opinion.

[No Man]

Thanks for your input!
Just FYI, here are two cars F/S with SC kits....

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=258319282&dealer_id=63799209&car_year=1996&rdm=1250705729801&model=VIPER&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&mod_bookmark_id=27126096&start_year=1996&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=0&marketZipError=false&color2=&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=DODGE&keywords_display=&color=BLUE&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=distance&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=distance&address=92117&advanced=y&end_year=1997&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=2195&standard=false

Another one (sold though)
Roe/Heads/Cam Gen 1, approx 690rwhp (update: SOLD!) - ViperForums.net Dodge Viper Forum (http://www.viperforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3211)


Get a Gen II for sure. The one you list has no blower photos and little information. There are better deals out there.

[No Man]

This looks like the car you are considering. Hideous.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Viper-Supercharged-96-GTS-Blue-White-Classic-Excellent_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em 14QQhashZitem35a2e4abd8QQitemZ230366161880QQptZUSQ 5fCarsQ5fTrucks

http://i.ebayimg.com/24/!BYMC!(g!Wk~$(KGrHgoH-C8EjlLl3wEGBKgMK3YDeQ~~_12.JPG

[Ripper]

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/btb/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/mcdonald.jpg

[Kanaljen]

Wait a minute... this is weird..

This classified from ebay, has the same VIN number as the classified from Autotrader I posted.. But the pics in the autotrader doesn't have the ROE charger on it, while the ebay does...

Hideous because of the yellow paint on a B/W GTS? :facepalm:



This looks like the car you are considering. Hideous.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Dodge-Viper-Supercharged-96-GTS-Blue-White-Classic-Excellent_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em 14QQhashZitem35a2e4abd8QQitemZ230366161880QQptZUSQ 5fCarsQ5fTrucks

http://i.ebayimg.com/24/!BYMC!(g!Wk~$(KGrHgoH-C8EjlLl3wEGBKgMK3YDeQ~~_12.JPG

[N2 TRBL]

:lol: Im lovin' it.

http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/btb/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/mcdonald.jpg

[mr viper]

Just buy my 95 viper! And get a roe supercharger installed! I'll make you a dam good deal! :)

[99 RT/10]

Yeah, something fishy there.............................

[HIGHPSI]

With nothing in between.


:haha:damn your witty!!

[MiSdIrEcTeD_1]

The Roe is perfect for what it does, but there is more potential from the Paxton if you are looking for bigger numbers anywhere down the road.

A Roe with a little spray, though, is another setup I consider ideal. Continuous and safe 650hp at the wheels for day to day, but always a 150 squeeze on tap for when you need it or for the strip. :yep: The sound of the Roe is pretty neat too. :thumbs: That setup with gears and the right driving will put you in the 9's, no problem.

[Kanaljen]

Thanks for the info!

I'm not after 1k rwhp really...

The reason I'm even interested in an aftermarket SC is because I question if 450 hp is enough after a while.. Right now, I have about 300 rwhp in my SC BMW and it's starting to feel slow and boring.. Would 150 hp more give me a stiffy every day for years; probably not. Would 600 hp to it, especially when the tq is available from way-low (as with a twin screw SC like the ROE), I would hope and think so!

So, if I think about this correctly, I think the Paxton setup is less of interest because it doesn't provide max tq until red-line and I'm not after more than 600-650 anyway...

The Roe is perfect for what it does, but there is more potential from the Paxton if you are looking for bigger numbers anywhere down the road.

A Roe with a little spray, though, is another setup I consider ideal. Continuous and safe 650hp at the wheels for day to day, but always a 150 squeeze on tap for when you need it or for the strip. :yep: The sound of the Roe is pretty neat too. :thumbs: That setup with gears and the right driving will put you in the 9's, no problem.

[SUN RA KAT]

Wait a minute... this is weird..

This classified from ebay, has the same VIN number as the classified from Autotrader I posted.. But the pics in the autotrader doesn't have the ROE charger on it, while the ebay does...

Hideous because of the yellow paint on a B/W GTS? :facepalm:

I believe that is my old Roe Supercharger in that car. It originally was in my Yellow Viper. It had to be rebuilt after Larry Macedo (Macedo Motorsports near Orlando Florida) spun it too fast and fried the bearings in it trying to use a 12 pound pulley with the David Weaver pulley to get HP out of it. Too bad Larry didn't check the pushrods (not right length) and the adjustment on the roiller rockers (over 2 turns too much) before he deliberately put in the wrong rewach spark plugs (too short) before he tried to get an impossible horsepower level ("at least the high 700's and quite possibly the low to mid 800s") - the Roe can only go to the low 700's per Sean Roe. The Roe Supercharger was NOT hideous in my Yellow Viper, BTW.

My Viper ran great with the Roe, but my Viper Tech (Bobby Loder, now at Walker Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep in Centerville, Ohio) convinced me that i needed to have my engine torn down to inspect the pistons and to put some power adders on at the same time. He then convinced me to send my car to Larry Macedo and the rest is history - do a Google Seach on Larry Macedo and you'll see photos and testimony of the ripoff that happened. Bobby Loder was told in public not to help me get my car fixed by Wendy Macedo (http://www.viperalley.com/forum/868243-post1519.html) and he wouldn't even work on my car when I took it to the dealership where he works yet he claims not to be working for Macedo.

Underground Racing fixed the damage Macedo did to my Viper and put on a Paxton Supercharger to get me the power that Larry Macedo promised me but was physically impossible to deliver.

Underground Racing found out with the Jeff Morys Striker Heads that they couldn't get me the power that Larry Macedo had promised me - they got me a whole lot more! KC at Underground was also able to tune my engine to run almost like a stock engine except it idled at 1,000 RPM and was somewhat louder than my old set up and the Underground Racing Cam had some shake at idle. The Underground Racing setup ran as well as my old Roe setup until it got above 4,000 RPM and then it gains over another 500 rear wheel horsepower at 5,600 RPM.

Both the Roe and the Paxton will easily run as smooth as a daily driver if you find a competent tuner to set it up right for you. I think without the JM Striker Heads I would prefer the Roe because of the low end power, but with the JM Striker Heads the low end power was very close to the same and I'm still learning about the huge increase of power at the top end of the Paxton vs. the Roe. Even Kevin of Underground Racing says it's scary fast. It sure scares me.

[martyb]

The Roe car you listed was mine, about 690rwhp. It was a fast car, broke the tires loose at 75mph. My theory is you will get used to any car if you drive it with the same power level for long, and they will start to seem slower in time. I have never had the pleasure of putting a ton of miles on a 1000rwhp car, but I would suspect eventually you would get used to that also. I went from 690rwhp to about 440rwhp in my new 01GTS. I love the new car so much that the HP right now doesn't matter to much to me, as there is always someone faster. I will tell you with the ROE, once its installed and tuned properly, there is really little in the way of maitenance that you have to worry about. I loved mine.

martyb

[SUN RA KAT]

martyb, your theory is very correct - I went from 436 rear wheel HP in July 2002 when I bought my Viper with the intention of getting the Roe when it came out. I was number 36 to get the Roe. By summer 2005 I had done enough mods to be making the low 600's in power. And I was getting used to the power, though I was always very aware of being very careful when driving it. I just wanted more at the top end - the Roe is perfect for a street Viper that can be a daily driver and race occassionally.

It takes a lot more to get used to driving a 1000+ rwhp Underground Racing Paxton Viper. With the Jeff Morys Striker Heads and Underground Racing's tuning mine drives very much like a Roe Viper until I get to 4000+ RPMs and then it's a totally different beast. Even at part throttle. I almost never realy get on it or let the RPMs get up to my shift light which is set at 5,200 RPMs unless I'm on a track. Even on the track it really scares me and I'm taking my time learning how to drive it.

Whichever way you go - Roe or Paxton - they are both great - the biggest thing is getting an honest and competent tuner. Underground Racing is at the positive end of what to look for and Macedo Motorsports is at the bottom end. There are other good tuners out there and there are other bad tuners out there. In my experience, most Viper owners that have had bad experiences with their tuner do not go public with it out of embarrassment. That makes it hard to know who to trust with your car and your money. I did a lot of digging checking out Macedo before I went with him and yet it wasn't after I went public that other owners came to me with stories on how Macedo did the same to them as he did to me.

[Kanaljen]

Thanks for sharing.. can't believe you're rolling a 1k rwhp on the streets!! :thumbs:

Yeah, I think I have received the same message as you're advice; make sure the car you're buying (if with aftermarket goodies) is tuned by a reputable shop!! TT, roe, Paxton... if done and tuned right, they all seem good, if tuned built and/or tuned poorly, you would rather drive a stock one...

martyb: Are you saying that the GTS (with tht yellow roe) was yours before this sell or were you the seller of it after putting on the roe?

Thanks guys!! One day... :nana:
martyb, your theory is very correct - I went from 436 rear wheel HP in July 2002 when I bought my Viper with the intention of getting the Roe when it came out. I was number 36 to get the Roe. By summer 2005 I had done enough mods to be making the low 600's in power. And I was getting used to the power, though I was always very aware of being very careful when driving it. I just wanted more at the top end - the Roe is perfect for a street Viper that can be a daily driver and race occassionally.

It takes a lot more to get used to driving a 1000+ rwhp Underground Racing Paxton Viper. With the Jeff Morys Striker Heads and Underground Racing's tuning mine drives very much like a Roe Viper until I get to 4000+ RPMs and then it's a totally different beast. Even at part throttle. I almost never realy get on it or let the RPMs get up to my shift light which is set at 5,200 RPMs unless I'm on a track. Even on the track it really scares me and I'm taking my time learning how to drive it.

Whichever way you go - Roe or Paxton - they are both great - the biggest thing is getting an honest and competent tuner. Underground Racing is at the positive end of what to look for and Macedo Motorsports is at the bottom end. There are other good tuners out there and there are other bad tuners out there. In my experience, most Viper owners that have had bad experiences with their tuner do not go public with it out of embarrassment. That makes it hard to know who to trust with your car and your money. I did a lot of digging checking out Macedo before I went with him and yet it wasn't after I went public that other owners came to me with stories on how Macedo did the same to them as he did to me.

[Viper4Christ]

:lol: Im lovin' it.

Yeah maybe you are...but he's not.:nope:
Then again thats what he gets for asking for no pickles on his cheeseburger.



http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q46/bike4christ1/mcslaped.jpg

[Viper4Christ]

Thanks for sharing.. can't believe you're rolling a 1k rwhp on the streets!! :thumbs:

Thanks guys!! One day...


Are you kidding, there's scores and scores of 1000+ HP Vipers running around. Between all the tuners out there I'd say there has to be at least 270 if not more big power Vipers out there. And there are thousands of lightly to medium modded cars out there all able to run 10's and 9's and then go drive the streets. :yep: