why not build like this from stock?

[Kanaljen]

Ok, putting my flame suit for what potentially could be a noob-type question..

So a striker head, with a lumpier cam I would assume (yes/no?), should yield around 100 more hp on a gen II. I would further assume that is due to the extra cfm capabilities of the head (larger valves, bigger and smoother passages..) and not because some increased redline by 500 and thus squeeze out some hp beyond the peak of the tq curve.

If this is correct, that means almost 25% increase in hp!!

What's the downside of this type of head? Must be something or the engineers would have used a similar head as OEM.. Is it because you lose low-end tq? Is it a cost thing (but again, how much more could it cost to use some bigger value and passages?) Is it a logevity thing? (If you need a lumpier cam to get the full benefits, I can see additional stress on studs, rockers, stands and valves)

If all of this would mean only 20-30 extra hp and time consuming and manual polishing of stock casted head, whatever the size, I can see how the extra work just wouldn't be worth it. But 100 hp!!?? must be a downside that I'm not aware of so please educate me!
:thumbs:

[v10nut]

I would think there are a few problems. The epa would not let it pass due to gas milage and pollution. Next the viper is dangerous enough with the power it has. There is even more liability putting that kind of power in to the hands of some of the dumb-asses that buy vipers when they should be driving a toyota. These are the mods I want to do to my car so I understand what you are saying. It would be nice. If you think about it though, the gen IV cars are putting close to that power down they just had to go a different rout to get there.

[ROGUEGTS]

People who have never been through it will never understand the rigorous bullshit the engineers have to jump through on designing things like this. Emissions is a HUGE part of it. We all know how easy it is to bump a stock viper by 40hp, but it wouldn't pass their spec that way.

[Kanaljen]

Yeah.. lots of variables I'm sure but emission was one that I didn't really think of.. Like strapping on a roe and removing the cats... it's even cheaper with more gain, even on stock internals but I can imagine that the emission regulations will put an end to that quickly.. ;)

Thanks guys, good insight!

[bushido]

Ok, putting my flame suit for what potentially could be a noob-type question..

So a striker head, with a lumpier cam I would assume (yes/no?), should yield around 100 more hp on a gen II. I would further assume that is due to the extra cfm capabilities of the head (larger valves, bigger and smoother passages..) and not because some increased redline by 500 and thus squeeze out some hp beyond the peak of the tq curve.

If this is correct, that means almost 25% increase in hp!!

What's the downside of this type of head? Must be something or the engineers would have used a similar head as OEM.. Is it because you lose low-end tq? Is it a cost thing (but again, how much more could it cost to use some bigger value and passages?) Is it a logevity thing? (If you need a lumpier cam to get the full benefits, I can see additional stress on studs, rockers, stands and valves)

If all of this would mean only 20-30 extra hp and time consuming and manual polishing of stock casted head, whatever the size, I can see how the extra work just wouldn't be worth it. But 100 hp!!?? must be a downside that I'm not aware of so please educate me!
:thumbs:

The price is the downside with striker heads too expensive.You can get just about the same amount of power with the stock (stage 3 ported heads) with Greg Good's or Jeff Morey's.
I have JM stage 3 heads. The heads alone gave me over 80rwhp. Later on, I had the heads milled bumped up the compression a full point and added a cam. Now my car puts down 591rwhp (warm) on DC Performance's dyno jet. Their dyno #s are also on the low side to..

[Disturbed]

add to your list a dry sump and soild roller cam set up, rev to 7500rpm and you can have 700rwhp N/A.

[Kanaljen]

I think the redline is 5.5krpm.. Are you saying that a solid roller cam with a dry sump for less windage alone make it safe to rev another 2k??

If the tq keeps up, that should yield another 30-35%hp, no?

Thanks guys for some great info!!
:thumbs:


add to your list a dry sump and soild roller cam set up, rev to 7500rpm and you can have 700rwhp N/A.

[The Former PFR]

Do you know how much money that would cost? A friend of mine worked at International doing Powerstrokes. When their testing eliminated a system that cost 13 dollars per engine, Ford was beyond thrilled. Heads like that would probably cost multiple 100s per engine if it stops there. Then, of course, the cam and exhaust needed to take advantage of those heads wouldn't even come close to passing emissions.

[InjOnly]

The reason is simple:
The Viper is a limited production vehicle and Dodge lost money on every one they built. Vipers were a loss leader item for Chrysler to build image.
Chrysler said that to breakeven Conner needed to pump out 12 per day and they averaged 11 at peak.
The extra's you're advocating would have only added to the loss and the dollar amount managment was willing to lose per car did not include more HP and torque.
What they accomplished with this car is given those restraints is quite remarkable and a testiment to the engineers.

[Sadistic]

What are you guys talking about? The most significant reason that the Gen 4 Viper makes the power it does is because Dodge improved the heads and intake. The power gained from the VVT is minimal and was done more for emissions and fuel economy in order to make the modifications I mentioned, feasible. The great thing about a Viper is that you can improve what you have instead of wasting money trading yours in for the newest one. We all know that GTS Vipers are easily modified to 600 rwhp. That's about the same as a Gen 4 with headers/exhaust. If you want 600 rwhp, it costs a lot less to modify your GTS than to trade it in on a Gen 4.

[Sadistic]

What are you guys talking about? The most significant reason that the Gen 4 Viper makes the power it does is because Dodge improved the heads and intake. The power gained from the VVT is minimal and was done more for emissions and fuel economy in order to make the modifications I mentioned, feasible. The great thing about a Viper is that you can improve what you have instead of wasting money trading yours in for the newest one. We all know that GTS Vipers are easily modified to 600 rwhp. That's about the same as a Gen 4 with headers/exhaust. If you want 600 rwhp, it costs a lot less to modify your GTS than to trade it in on a Gen 4.

No shit, jerkoff but there are more improvements in the Gen 4 than just power. Maybe some people want the better brakes, handling and interior. How are you going to make the GTS comparable when it comes to the interior or handling of a Gen 4 ACR??

[Sadistic]

No shit, jerkoff but there are more improvements in the Gen 4 than just power. Maybe some people want the better brakes, handling and interior. How are you going to make the GTS comparable when it comes to the interior or handling of a Gen 4 ACR??

Watch your tongue, hairy backed terrorist barbarian or you will get us both banned. This is not the "anything goes" section and did you forget who was getting us laid all those years? The interior on a GTS may not be quite as visually appealing as the newer model but it is very comfortable. Handling and braking can be modified and how are you going to get a Gen 4 to look as delectable as a GTS?

[Sadistic]

Watch your tongue, hairy backed terrorist barbarian or you will get us both banned. This is not the "anything goes" section and did you forget who was getting us laid all those years? The interior on a GTS may not be quite as visually appealing as the newer model but it is very comfortable. Handling and braking can be modified and how are you going to get a Gen 4 to look as delectable as a GTS?


Yeah, you got us laid, alright but you never pulled out in time. Now I am working my ass off paying two child support payments not to mention feeding the kids you made with this new brazzie you've got roaming through the house.

Carpet Cleaning scrub!

[No Man]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[InjOnly]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


Not sure what you did to him , but :bow:

[Casey111]

:rofl: at Sadi

[Red Snake]

He either forgot to log in as his AE or he's finally went off the deep end, lol. :facepalm:

[GTS Bruce]

My car makes 462rwhp and 498rwtq. Handling was my first priority. Eibach springs,adjusted shockls, more suitable alignment. Yeah PCM flash by DC,RR ,high flows,headers and corsa. I like the interior as it is. Have driven 10-12 hours to an event stopping only for gas,a bite and to pee. Went the full stop tech big brake this year. They are great. Next .... Yep stryker heads,cam. An easy 600rwhp. BTW none of the acr's are runing away from me now. Needs stickier tires too. Ps2 ok. cup sports na for rear.So maybe a second set of wheels with hoosiers. GTS Bruce

[Disturbed]

Sadi....that was too funny.

Drop by...then you can drive a real GTS... :D

[Sadistic]

Sadi....that was too funny.

Drop by...then you can drive a real GTS... :D

Surely you don't mean that project car in your garage? First you'll have to get that monster out from underneath all those blankets and boxes. Is it really a Viper? I consider my GTS a "real GTS" since it is always running while Orlando's turbo monster and your GTS' seem to be bed-ridden more times than not.

P.S. Stop killing those slithery animals wandering in your yard or I'm going to have Tati call the animal rights group and you'll wake up with some long-haired hippy beatniks outside your house by morning. :haha:

[bushido]

Orlando's turbo monster

I thought that guy sold his Viper?

Also do you know what happened to Speed Clinic? Did they get shut down? I was curious because a few people said that they got ripped off by them..

[Sadistic]

I have seen Orlando's Viper in his shop recently so I doubt that he sold it. Disturbed is busy building a carbon fiber Viper porn shop and doesn't have time to work on his car at the moment.